Trans people; why is it our responsibility?

[XChrome]

Okay, so trans identifying folks say that they need access to women's spaces because they aren't safe in men's spaces. I get that, but it is a problem caused by men. Therefore the solution should be about men, not women. So why isn't the main focus on targeting these men, campaigning for harsher penalties for such hate crimes? Why instead are they expecting women to compensate them for male behavior, making ourselves feel less safe in the process?

I would love for a trans identifying person to answer that question.
Has anyone here ever asked a trans person this question and received an honest answer?

I'm not hardcore "terf" as I respect everyone's right to decide who and what they are. My problem with it is when it conflicts with other people's rights to safety and security. I would really like to them to tell us why the violent men who cause this problem are being let off the hook and women are the ones targeted with all this anti-terf hate.

I'll bet you don't mate.

Men make up 90-95% of sexual offenders and 90% of violent offenders. Women and children make up the majority of the victims. They are more likely to be the victims of trans women in womens spaces because cis-men (otherwise known as men) are unlikely to be present and women statistically are unlikely to offend at the same rate as men.
Trans women however offend at similar rates to men and are over represented in the population of sexual offenders in prison compared to cis-men. * *

A stonkingly small percentage of people identify as cis, stop misgendering the vast majority that don't.

I encountered a transwoman masturbating in the ladies toilet when I was a teenager. There is a whole porn genre of men dressed as women exposing themselves and masturbating in womens toilets. It matters.

Really? I’m pretty sure that that cisgendered people form the vast majority of people. Trans and non-binary is relatively small in comparison surely.

I suspect this may be a bot.

Do you think Sarah Jane Baker should have been put in a women's prison?

And apparently it’s inhumane to ask / even consider the subject. ‘Reduces them to body parts’. All well and good until situations like Karen White (trans identified male who was placed in a female prison and went on to sexually assault two women in the prison) happens.

this whole situation is a joke. And as usual it is working class, vulnerable women who will suffer.

The vast majority of people identify as men or women. Cis is an unwanted label applied by other people to distinguish from the minority who identify as non-binary or trans.
I am a woman, do not misgender me.

"half of the people in prison who declare themselves transgender have been sentenced with one or more sexual offences. We have now obtained new data which is the clearest and most recent evidence confirming the vast majority of these trans sex offenders were born male. These MOJ statistics show that transgender women exhibit a male-type pattern of criminality. We conclude that transwomen in prison exhibit a propensity to sexual crime that matches their birth sex and not their gender identity"

https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

Cordelia, it seems that most of the people in this thread don't identify as cis-women, so I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you not refer to all biological females as cis in this thread. It works both ways you know. Please be respectful of how we identify.

Notice the double standard there, after lecturing us about the horrors of misgendering.

Yes, it seems that "misgendering" only works ONE way, and only ONE group are allowed to take offence to it.

Women! Put up and shut up, and be referred to as WE want to refer to you
Transwomen! (aka man) - Don't put up with being "misgendered"! Demand everyone uses your pronouns and never refer to your biological sex!

Just like respect only works one way, rights only work one way, and the co-opting of language only works one way.

Funny that.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the case. I'm assuming this was a trans? I favour separate facilities for transwomen, as long as they are not violent offenders. Violent offenders can surely take care of themselves in a men's prison population and don't need the protection of a separate area.

Women and younger girls have been assaulted in single sex toilets by men posing as women as well as common or garden men.

How many is acceptable to those of you who say it's a non-issue? Just because it hasn't happened to you or someone you know.

The trouble with 'being kind' and letting the 'nice transwomen' in is that it opens the floodgates to any man being allowed in. It won't be possible to question it and they won't require any documentation or surgery to enter. Plenty of dodgy men will relish this opportunity (TW and/or male presenting). Even if a man has had 'bottom surgery' (NB virtually none of them despite strong dysphoria) they still retain their physical strength. Why would 'nice transwomen' want to put women at risk like this when they can simply use the men's or petition for third spaces? By their own logic men aren't a threat since it's fine for women to welcome them into their single sex spaces (all men in practice as checks won't be applicable).

Fully enclosed cubicles aren't suitable for people with certain medical conditions including epilepsy. Women from a variety of religions and cultures are unable to use mixed sex facilities. Victims of VAWG will also avoid. Women, particularly younger women and girls will not necessarily be comfortable using the facilities and changing sanitary protection in the company of men or walking out to the sink area if men might be present. Particularly the type of men who will relish the opportunity to intimidate women and girls.

It might be tolerable at busy times when there are a constant flow of women (safety in numbers) but I wouldn't feel comfortable at less busy and quiet times. Who are women supposed to contact if there is an issue? The police don't typically respond in a timely manner and have been shown to be dismissive of crimes (notably sexual, physical, coercive) affecting women and girls. Particularly flashing which is a precursor to more serious sexual offences.

That either went right over your head or you are being disingenuous.

"cisgendered" is made-up crap.

HTH.

Yeah, it matters. Just not as urgently, IMO, as places like DV shelters and rape crisis centres. I was saying I don't care about it nearly as much as I do those spaces, which should be absolutely sacrosanct as the women in them are all in an extremely vulnerable position and traumatized.

Men and their disgusting perversions! 🤮

Well actually, many (most?) people don't identify as men or women. We just are.

Oh, don’t be so f**king disingenuous! You’re either very young and trying to be clever or you’re taking the piss. Of course sex and gender are different! And as for that crap about whether your gender matches your sex - what’s that then? Ooh, yes, I know 🙄 It’s regressive stereotypes!

And why do you keep saying you’re in the U.K. yet call toilets “restrooms” and keep getting U.K. law totally wrong? 🤔

Toilets are divided by sex: male and female. Transwomen are, by definition, male so should not be in the female toilets. Their gender is irrelevant. The Equality Act allows for single sex facilities.

Do you not think toilets are sacrosanct? Women are in an intimate position, literally in a state of undress.

This is very appealing to a certain category of men who unfortunately do exist. Just to be in the immediate vicinity if nothing else.

See my post above, is it okay to exclude women in various categories who CANNOT use mixed sex facilities?

Fully enclosed cubicles aren't safe in a medical emergency (gaps exist for a reason, they're not a fun design feature). It's not a solution anyway unless the toilet opens into a busy or well monitored public area with hand washing facilities. Some schools have implemented this, toilets opening out into a corridor with sinks outside (also unisex which is fun if you have period blood on your hands) but it's not possible to fully configure all public toilets this way. It still removes women's rights to privacy and dignity to have a male urinating/defecating beside them in a previously single sex space*. Nevermind having to discreetly unwrap sanpro, younger girls especially who are often embarrassed and just getting to grips with periods. Yes women and girls could will be expected to 'get over it' but why should they, for the sake of men and boys?

*Someone will say what's the difference, how can you even tell if it's a man or a women, they sound the same (!). However it's telling that the majority of women aren't comfortable with mixed sex facilities much beyond a fully enclosed toilet in a cafe for example that opens into a busy public space. Every school, workplace, festival etc I've been in women have been squeamish about the idea of using the ladies' facilities for anything more than a wee. Yes it's ridiculous but it's common unfortunately. Countless threads have appeared on here. Now imagine if men (a category which includes creepy men as how can you discriminate?) are introduced into the equation.

And welcome to a very old myth that testosterone blockers reduce sexually predatory tendencies. They don't.

sex offenders/violent offenders should be in their own special prison imo not free to attack non-violent prisoners no matter what the gender identity and the overwhelming majority will be non-trans attackers

I too don’t quite understand how you can never have heard of some of the opinions on this thread. They are the routine opinions held by a majority of the U.K. population, and which would have been held by about 99 percent of the U.K. population as recently as ten or fifteen years ago. How many people do you know who really, actually believe men change into women when they put on a dress and lipstick and take a few oestrogen pills? Do you really think that it’s criminal to express this in the U.K.?

Of course sex and gender are different. Sex is biological and bodily fact; gender has long been defined as what used also to be called “sex roles”: the social norms surrounding what are expected by “masculine” or “feminine” behaviours, dress, abilities, and so on. Like “women are submissive”, or “women can’t drive well”, or “women aren’t good at maths, and if they are they might be lesbians”. Or “strong men shouldn’t show their emotions”, “it’s fine for men to sleep around but not women”, or “men don’t remember birthdays, or like flowers”.

Only in the last few years have some teenagers on the internet started to think of “gender” as an innate “identity” or inner soul that you’re both with. eg. “I like flowers and remember people’s birthdays, so I must be a woman”; or indeed “I’m good at maths and am a lesbian, so I must really be a man”. Which is just internalising social “sex roles” and buying into them: instead thinking that they’re true and right and somehow inside you, rather than just social conventions or roles that the sexes learn to play.

@PrincessCordelia "Unless you mean a man pretending to be trans in order to be a predator then this is deception"

Oh the irony. What is the difference between a man pretending to be a woman, and a man pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman?

when they release pedos with “chemical castration pills” I think that must work as I saw a Louis Theroux documentary on it. All sex offenders should be taking these