Keir Starmer to end Tory Culture Wars

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Oh what a relief. Where would we be without him?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-keir-starmer-says-he-will-end-tory-culture-wars-if-he-becomes-prime-minister_uk_6666d7d2e4b02fc48bf3ec39?d_id=7763591&ncid_tag=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=uk_main

Well the Tory culture of stoking division is making the UK a deeply unpleasant place to live

You only have to spend a night in a pub and listen to the moaning and arguing

That's led me to here (One of the Centre for Heterodox people), so that's my evening sorted. Thanks @IwantToRetire

https://www.heterodoxcentre.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Politics-of-the-Culture-Wars-in-Contemporary-Britain1.pdf

My clear view is that the vast majority of the public in general in the UK are reasonable, tolerant people.
“Live and let live is a very British thing, and what culture wars do is force people into taking sides that they’re not instinctively inclined to do

This worries me as it sounds way too much like complacency. What particularly strikes me is that the general direction of travel has, until very recently, been in favour of gender ideology.

But the further we go, the louder the objections become. I’m aware that the most threatening voices are coming from one side, but I’m fairly sure that that is mostly fire and fury. Maybe I’m wrong, but I suspect if Labour made it very clear that they were going to give women their rights back, that a lot of the battle would, ironically vanish.

Most of the massive battle for rights that is occurring (in my opinion) is because women have been pushed too far. We have started pushing back, and the women’s movement that has been created looks way more like a genuine civil rights issue than the rapidly conceded demands of the trans lobby.

It takes ages to persuade reasonable people to get behind a genuine civil rights issue. Obviously I don’t think we should have to be fighting it again, but I suspect there are enough people who think it’s the right direction to go, would probably be overwhelming, if the government were to unequivocally move in that direction.

Transactivism has mainly moved in the shadows and behind closed doors. They have not put in the legwork that genuine civil rights movements had to. It’s all smoke and mirrors and, ironically I do suspect that, if Labour moved against them, they would certainly wail and gnash their teeth, but I suspect most would realise the game was up.

Women, however, are not going to stop because while transactivists are loud and aggressive and trying to drown our voices out, we are quietly very, very angry. If he thinks we are suddenly going to become tolerant of our rights being removed, once they’re properly taken away, he’s got another think coming.

What about world peace and picking up the garden waste more than once a fortnight?

She certainly was.....Dawn Butler appointed her when she was Shadow Women and Equalities. She certainly still seems to hang around and be best buddies with Labour party people, such as Kate Osborne.

You mean listening to people who disagree with the 'appropriate' position?

The irony, of course, being that there is a huge culture war going on in both the Conservative party and in the Labour party at present. Lots of Labour members are now ex Labour party members for a variety of reasons, including many people here; but also proper Lefties hate Starmer and are thoroughly disillusioned; and going to vote for more radical independents or the Greens.

Starmer even ejected the partner ( Sam Tarry) of Angela Raynor - she can only still be in position because she is career oriented above all else.

Being supportive of Israel is one thing I can support him on, and one thing he has got right.

Because before this government everyone agreed on everything, no one ever moaned or argued...

At least everyone agreed Gordon Brown was the worst PM in living memory.

Now look at the state of us. Some say May, others Cameron, yet others Johnson, some say Truss, or Sunak. We can't agree on Shittest Recent PM recently, and the tories are definitely to blame!

I’ve thought previously that Starmer knew what a woman was, but needed to not piss off his TRA support base. Now I think that his thinking is absolutely in line with his TRA support base - women should shut up, budge up, be kind and remember that it’s rude to look at the penis in their changing room. Unfortunately, once in power, it will be easy for him to change the laws we’ve been relying on. It’ll be Stonewall’s biggest power grab yet

I thought that nobody talked about any of this (except in my very rural local which doesn't count).

If you go to a lesbian bar, you'll find a lot of men in there moaning about trans discrimination!

Starmer even ejected the partner ( Sam Tarry) of Angela Raynor

Did he? Why is that?

5 years time and Farage with be PM...

Just saying.

I also here a lot of comments about how they don't trust starmer and think hes insincere.

hes not even pm yet.

at last the tories have actually done something to piss people off rather than just talking!

You are spot on. I think Starmer has every intention to steamroller over women as soon as he gains power. Why else would Starmer be having back door meetings with the likes of Iain Anderson, the ex Chair of Stonewall who publicly gave up his longstanding Tory membership over the Tory stance on trans issues.

Anderson, who says he will support Labour at the next election, recently met Sir Keir Starmer to discuss business policy and said he was confident the opposition party leader would “do what he says”.
https://www.ft.com/content/0668efbd-ca9c-4b8b-a1c1-0c2adcd75348

I'm sure the likes of Anderson will be doing all kinds of background deals with Starmer to destroy women's rights.

I wish I could vote Labour on other grounds but I think anyone who trusts Starmer and Labour on women's rights is being taken for a fool.

Live and let live is a very British thing, and what culture wars do is force people into taking sides that they’re not instinctively inclined to do

Smug and short sighted. A timely reminder.

but he/his office never had the decency to even acknowledge receipt of my follow up emails to him)

How telling.

re

This was KS’s reply to @rogdmum on a mumsnet Q & A interview when she asked if he would look into ROGD as quoted in Pink News:

"I'm acutely aware of the anxiety and distress that [transitioning) causes to individuals and
families. *This has to be seen as a human rights issue and we need to ensure that this debate is conducted respectfully and calmly,
and with the best interests of children at heart."^

which was in response to a mum with a 14 year old daughter saying she was a boy. A human rights issue? A debate?
What is he talking about?

No, it is absolutely not ok at all to answer that mother that way. It is outrageous, like a nasty, passive controller.

Starmer is saying whatever he thinks will keep the most people happy. He really doesn't care that much about this stuff demonstrated by the way he shifts position. Remember even when he ran for leader he was the only candidate that refused to sign a TRA pledge He is way more interested in law and order. He wants this issue to GO AWAY. That doesn't mean he will give TRAs what they want, he just wants to find a way to avoid talking about it if that means women win out he won't care that much either.

Ultimately he will be pushed by whichever faction inside Labour gains control on this issue. Our problem is a bunch of big players want to give into the TRAs including major unions.

However, there are other major Labour figures who question or see through TRA stuff.

Shabana Mahmood, Shadow minister for Justice the only Muslim in the Shadow cabinet and one of the few minorities in the cabinet is a full gender crit. Note Starmer loves her.

Wes Streeting shadow secretary for Health is a a weasel who has changed his position. He increasingly knows the TRA position is nonsense because he has read up on things and actually read the Cass report. Note the TRAs now despise him and are trying to back him losing his seat that gives him personal motivation. I think Streeting has late in the day realised how homophobic this all is. He is also personally ambitious. If he is responsible for the NHS he will want to avoid legal culpability, I can't see him want to back more experiments on kids for which he will be blamed by future Tories.

There are also a bunch of hints Rachael Reeves, the Shadow Chancellor, thinks TRA stuff is nonsense.

Bridget Phillipson Secretary for Education also seems to be ready to be sceptical about TRA claims though hedgy in language.

Lets see the wording in the manifesto that will indicate what is really going on behind the scenes. Even that will be open to change and battling in Parliament.

If Streeting is as smart as pundits keep saying he is, I'm surprised it's taken him so long to cotton on to the homophobia thing, to say the least. Couldn't agree more with @fromorbit 's

He wants this issue to GO AWAY 😃

"Culture war" is, I believe, a term imported from the US and describes a state of affairs where there is not simply deep disagreement on contentious issues but politics and possibly society is split between groups that see each other as total evil, or driven solely by base or stupid motives.

Instead of thinking of a political opponent as someone fundamentally decent, and honest in their beliefs, who one simply happens to disagree with, the view of them is Manichean.

Part of me appreciates mach2s post as an interesting and perceptive response.
But I believe we have moved on from there.
Whenever someone uses the term, it's always their opponents carrying the CW out.
When in fact it means that they find the opinions of that other side unpalatable and are unwilling to engage with them in a more useful way. So CW is misused in an attempt to shut others down.