Keir Starmer to end Tory Culture Wars

[Sausagenbacon]

Oh what a relief. Where would we be without him?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-keir-starmer-says-he-will-end-tory-culture-wars-if-he-becomes-prime-minister_uk_6666d7d2e4b02fc48bf3ec39?d_id=7763591&ncid_tag=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=uk_main

I got echoes of David Cameron's 'Calm down, dear'.

Oh, Christ.

The trouble with Starmer is his speeches are so bloody empty of anything meaningful you have to scrabble around for key words that give a little hint of his actual meaning.

This waffly platitude-filled weak bollocks suggests he has made his choice, and its the luxury beliefs of his posh powerful north London media pals.

Women are dismissed as unimportant.

I do have grave concerns for what they'll do to self ID, the Cass Report, the new school guidelines. And they've already dismissed clarifying the EA.

It's true that many of us are tired of explaining reality to fuckwits. But if Starmer thinks for one minute women will give up and roll over then I think he is in for a fucking great big shock.

He was deselected because he supported strike action, against Starmer's wishes.

The irony of @mach2's post is that all of this is imported. Even the definition of CW. Social media seems to form a way of takeover of other countries by stealth. Time was, we'd look at such notions as NB and mutter "only in America!" whereas today, these ideas are seeded by apps and icons on our screens. Mostly this is all swallowed by children of course.

I'm not sure I agree we are past the power of the term I'm afraid @Sausagenbacon. We never stopped using "political correctness" and in spite of its pretty vague meaning, it always has a degree of power behind it when deployed.

I keep hearing so many people saying similar.

This is often from people who hate the Tories too!

There's an air of despair this election in a way I've not heard before. There's no enthusiasm at all for starmer.

Just comments about how wet he is, how he doesn't hold an opinion on lots of important issues and is clearly trying to please everyone and succeeding in pleasing no one and creating a air of distrust because he has no real intention of listening to the concerns of anyone.

It's really not just about this issue too.

Lots of people will vote labour because they aren't the Tories, but there's not a real air of excitement about it.

1997 was so different, and yet so similar in so many respects. People were fed up of the Tories there was scandal after scandal but people were genuinely optimistic about Labour getting in.

It's so different this time.

It's curious.

It is much more possible that even though he has a massive majority Starmer will face a lot more problems than people appreciate. He has not got a huge amount of personal credit in the bank with anyone in terms of support.

I think maybe he's speaking about himself there......because he equivocates and is wishy washy - on the issue of women's rights and protections versus trans ideology he's not going to stick his head out. He's going to take what seems like the path of least resistance ( certainly within his own party).

His lack of politcal instinct means he hasn't registered yet that there is going to be almighty resistance, and increasingly so, towards Labour's encouragement and nurturing of trans ideology from most of everyone else.

I disagree about the opinions things and British culture.

The UK is incredibly liberal. More so than the us.

Historical we accept a large range of opinions. What we want is cavets and explanations though. If we get those we tend to be able to live with different opinions.

What the British don't respond well to is 'because I say so' or 'because I'm right' without that why part. They want discussion.

Social media has tended to reduce arguments into increasingly black and white and less grey, but even then I do think the reason that we've become terf island is because of us desire to want to discuss and to challenge when we don't get an adequate explanation to what we are told.

I'm not sure Brexit would have happened in other places - not purely because we are an island but because there was a section of the public who didn't like the being talked down to stuff - the 'calm down dear' attitude. Think Rochdale scandal too though. Or North Staffs.

We are seeing a dumbing down of a lot of public debate due to social media but there is also this rise in politics being the new rock and roll amongst young people too. I don't think they are all going to roll over and be Starmer allies the second he gets into power. Starmer then becomes the establishment and the very person to blame for shit.

I could be wildly wrong on this. But I have a fairly good eye for what's coming next in British politics. I don't think it's going to be the plain sailing many expect from such a huge majority. Give it 12 months. Look at how good starmers personal approval ratings are. He's regarded luke warm at best now.

Biden also said that he would be bring people together. Such a big lie. It is much worst with him now.

I think you're right. I'll give him 18 months before he hits a major crisis of leadership....His job was to get Labour elected and he's pretty much done that now.....but at what cost? He's created as many divisions as he's healed - within his own party, especially; and the public now have sky high expectations.

My concern going forward is the lack of opposition.

I think we are sleep walking into Farage becoming the official opposition.

There are implications to this.

Also, if you think you can end a culture war if that becomes the dynamic, you are off your fucking head.

There is a lack of reading the room going on.

@RedToothBrush Agree and it worries me a lot who would be take over the Labour leadership.

New today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13519601/public-support-transgender-change-sex-birth-certificate.html

Public support for transgender people's ability to change sex on their birth certificate collapses compared to recent years, major study reveals

Just 24 per cent of people now agree that trans people should be allowed to change their sex 'if they want' – compared to support levels of 58 per cent in 2016.

The results have emerged as part of the British Social Attitudes report, carried out annually by the National Centre for Social Research.

Researchers also looked at public opinion on trans rights – and came to similar conclusions. Asked whether they thought trans rights had gone too far, 47 per cent of the public thought they had. Just over one in five (22 per cent) thought they hadn't gone far enough.

This is not the climate to bring self ID in without creating issues.

That's reputable and respected btw.

This 💯

This won't be a restoration of women's rights, this is back to #BeKind and women know your place. Well our place is safeguarding disturbed kids and challenging attempts to harm them at every step

Me! I agree with him.
It is entirely possible (and I think desirable) to discuss transgender issues without it descending into black and white "TWAW/TWANW" polarised arguments where there is only one "right" answer depending on what side you are on.
It is exhausting. Most of the general public have disengaged because they don't want to spend their time fighting.

That article to me has very little to disagree with.

yes - but - where does that leave you when KS refuses to engage with the subject, as he does.
I can totally understand pulling back from a discussion when it is getting nowhere. But, in this circumstance, there is no discussion.

What has struck me so far is how many people are standing. Lots of new, tiny parties, lots of independents. Good, in a lot of ways - people are mobilising. But I think it's reflective of a huge loss of faith in all the main, established parties.

I think this is a trend that will continue to grow too.

To me it means taking a controversial issue and deliberately turning it into sides so that people are "either with us or against us", by using emotive language, over simplifying the argument and being black and white about solutions.

Immigration is a good example. The Conservatives/Reform paint it as either you support the Rwanda plan and "stop the boats" or you support complete freedom of movement with no restrictions whatsoever. Whereas the reality is most people are somewhere between those points on a spectrum of more or less controls. The polarisation turns it into a fight, not a negotiation.

It's also treating the electorate like children, which I don't appreciate.

I think you'll find a large section of the population would say Margaret Thatcher to that question (before Johnson et al.)😂

Two words

Liz Truss.

Yes I think there is fairly universal support that she was shitter than everyone else.

You do realise the "North London Elite" has anti-semitic roots don't you?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-uk/the-hypocrisy-of-rishi-sunaks-north-london-slur

Just because a politician didn’t intend to invoke an anti-Semitic trope—and surely Sunak had no such intention— does not mean that trope was left uninvoked. As Rachel Cunliffe warned this week, in a piece with the headline “Why Do the Tories Hate North London?” published in the New Statesman, “anyone aware of how tropes about wealthy elites intersect with anti-Semitism should be cautious.”

Did you read the comment I was replying to?

@RedToothBrush

"I could be wildly wrong on this. But I have a fairly good eye for what's coming next in British politics. I don't think it's going to be the plain sailing many expect from such a huge majority. Give it 12 months. Look at how good starmers personal approval ratings are. He's regarded luke warm at best now"

I would fully agree with your opinion on what's coming next.

Many of those voting Labour have high expectations of real change especially younger voters. The current economic situation and level of debt simply doesn't allow anything vaguely radical to be done as Liz Truss found out the hard way.

The Conservatives will get crushed and conclude that they effectively need to become Reform. A few Tories will disagree and join the Lib Dems.

The 2029 election will be very interesting.

He does engage. But what he says pisses off both sides.
There are endless threads on here poring over what he said, what he really meant. There are endless posters shouting and calling other posters "TRAs" for not being completely TWANW.

Nothing can move forward when the entire debate is hijacked by the noisiest 2 percent at either end of the opposing positions.

@CassieMaddox

Although people will disagree on the political stance of say Thatcher or Brown, both of them were capable and smart individuals.

Whereas Liz Truss was so far out of her depth in student politics let alone as PM - she was shockingly incapable, nasty and dumb.