Discussion on R4 Woman's Hour on choking during sex

[MimiGC]

Has made me want to weep. What young women have to put up with now, under the guise of it being mainstream, cool and expected, really does make me want to cry. My daughter is 17, not yet sexually active, but I guess it won't be long before she is - what kind of a world are we sending our girls into, where being strangled, with all the risks that entails, is seen as normal?

Saw this on their twitter. I remember a thread here some years ago entitled "dd says all the bits want to choke during sex" or similar.

It's horrific .

*boys

It really is bad.

My teenagers (+ young adults) steer well clear of certain parties and ‘gangs’ because of all the sexualised violence that goes on regularly. I was gobsmacked when I heard what some of the young lads were up to.
Is it really porn that is causing this abhorrent behaviour?

I can't find that specific thread but far too many others came up.

15yr old and choking www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/4847484-15yr-old-and-choking

How common these days - biting, have pulling, light choking, slapping?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sex/4541239-how-common-these-days-biting-have-pulling-light-choking-slapping

I wonder if it's something @MNHQ could do some data collection on?

I read somewhere that 74% of under 25 s view choking as mainstream. Sorry, I don’t have the source. I was chatting to a woman at the gym about our daughters who at 18 and 20 have started dating. She told me her daughter rejected someone for not having a savings account, although she’d never have thought of that as a Nono. I told her I’d warned mine that boys watch too much porn and to have nothing to do with choking. This woman went oh yeah but if there’s a safe word... I said the safest safe word is NO. I just can’t understand why she would want that for her daughter, even if she’s internalised the misogyny enough to have it in her own life.

Is deeply concerning that males are finding choking arousing.

In terms of evolution, it does not make sense for this desire to have evolved. I say this as you would expect the promotion on this via porn and sexual imagery not to take off on a widespread level.

This absolutely needs to be researched, and quickly!

Listening to it now, wish I wasn't but I feel I need to know as I have boys

And anal, filming, revenge porn, and fisting. All horrendously common, anecdotally and mentioned online.

Whenever this subject comes up on here there are always "cool" posters (a lot of them men!) who burble on about "breath play" and "safety signals".
There is no safe way to deprive the brain of oxygen on a regular basis. The programme covered research that proves this.

God I’m so glad my teenager is a lesbian

All violent, controlling, dominating sexual acts are now deemed “kinks” and woe betide any “hater” who “kink shames” them.
What utter misogynistic bollocks. And the worst being that some women accept this as normal and even say they enjoy it themselves which frankly I don’t believe for a second. It is simply a way to gain male attention and approval.
I thought the whole “ladette” culture of the nineties was bad enough but this is a whole new realm of conditioning, grooming and abuse in plain sight.

The choking and anal is definitely become mainstream driven by porn. I had a look at Pornhub which is freely available (click to confirm over 18 FFS) and costs nothing to access. These are both specified categories of mainstream porn, you can choose from a list of porn categories including Teen, BDSM, Trans-you name it.
Loads of grabbing by the hair, slapping, name calling, facial ejaculation shots, just basically anything I would deem as degrading and unacceptable as a woman. I don’t know about the rest if you lot but I don’t find any of these practices a turn on, so who is it for?

I have a 16yo daughter and ended up sitting her down (to her absolute horror) and telling her what I had looked at and how this is not what she should expect from a sexual relationship. Ended up having a really good talk with her about being pressured, not agreeing to explicit pictures/videos etc.

Think everyone needs to have very blunt conversations with their teen sons and daughters about this stuff, because we certainly can’t stop them being exposed to it.

FFS - this is why discussions can't happen, because of the judjement against others who seem to think women can only like vanilla sex...

I enjoy anal and spanking, bondage and other 'kinks'... and it's not to 'look cool to men'. I sought out a man who is loving and kind and gentle, but who also likes the same things in sex as I do, where there is trust and respect. Oh and for what it's worth, some men like those things done to them too, so it goes both way.

Do you really think a party of drunk teenage boys is a well informed and respectful place for girls to learn about rough sex?

Just because some people like to take massive risks during sex by engaging in "breathplay" and other dangerous activities, it doesn't follow that those acts should therefore be normalised.

Decades ago, at the height of the safe sex era, I remember a book that was all about derisking various kinks and helping people find ways to scratch their itches without risking injury or even death. There was quite a big focus on helping people understand what the risks were and why some acts weren't a good idea, regardless of whether safe words were involved.

I have been pretty horrified (to say the least) to see how all that's gone out the window over the past decade.

There are always women who come into these threads sneering at 'vanilla' tastes as though it's something to be ashamed of. I am so sad for teenagers discovering sex and opening up a world of absolute horror - of pain and humiliation and danger, all labelled as 'kinks'. When you think back to what is was like as a teenager wondering what sex would be like, dreaming of romance and falling in love for the first time. But now sex is portrayed on the internet as a battleground with women brutalised and crying.

@Batgin ,

The problem is how far you can assault someone and say it is a ‘kink’ and harmless. Personally I think that stops a long way ahead of strangulation.

Also, a lot of the experiences people have when they are young are not well thought out in advance. It is a very sad thing when young men at their sexual peak need more than the excitement of normal sex to get them off.

This just wouldn’t have been normal pre internet. It is a massive problem.

May I ask what exactly you get out of anal? There are no pleasure receptors in a woman's arse, unlike in a blokes, so what exactly is the turn on for you?

This is something I’ve wondered about before. The thought of it just makes me wince. But then I’m a middle aged menopausal woman and vanilla isn’t get much of a look in at the moment either!

I heard this too and having two teenage DDs it made me extremely sad and also v worried for them.

Hearing this sort of thing is the only time when I fleetingly wish that I hadn't had any kids.

Neither of my girls are in relationships but I will definitely be talking to them about this.

Btw I hate the suggestion that "Vanilla" sex is just for prudes. I have never wanted to engage in anything other than Vanilla sex and have still had plenty of joy thank you!

@MultiPolarista the cliterus is actually a large organ that is mostly internal and can be stimulated via the vagina and the anal passage. I understand it won't be the same for every woman, just like some woman get no pleasure or climax from vaginal penitration, but I find I get a lot of pleasurable stimulation from anal. It is different from vaginal stimulation, but it can also be a lot more intense and give me whole body tingleing and much stronger orgasms.

Again, I get everyone is different. I just get very frustrated when people say that women must be lying because they say they enjoy sexual acts that others don't. Fine if someone doesn't like it or doesn't want to do it - but people shouldn't put down others who do enjoy it or say they are lying. It's really insulting and damaging to do so, and I feel stops healthy productive discussions.

@Havingashittyarthritisday there is nothing wrong with vanilla sex, nor was I saying that there was. 'Vanilla' sex can be amazing and sometimes all I want is vanilla sex, just like sometimes all I want is slow sensual no-kink sex.

I think though that people implying that women who also enjoy kinks and sex acts beyond vanilla ones are weird or lying is hugely unfair, judemental and damaging.

I think kinks going mainstream has been damaging. I don't understand why the kink and BDSM crowd are suddenly ok with it. It used to be niche because of the safety aspect.

My DDs are mid-teens and I 100% agree

@Batgin 'vanilla' has become a derogatory term, it has replaced 'frigid' as a way of shaming women (and sometimes men) who don't want to either engage in sex till they are ready or engage in a type of sex they are not interested in