Discussion on R4 Woman's Hour on choking during sex

[MimiGC]

Has made me want to weep. What young women have to put up with now, under the guise of it being mainstream, cool and expected, really does make me want to cry. My daughter is 17, not yet sexually active, but I guess it won't be long before she is - what kind of a world are we sending our girls into, where being strangled, with all the risks that entails, is seen as normal?

The lips have a great deal of nerves but can you come from a man putting his cock in your mouth?
No, there is no way a woman can come from anal sex alone.

The absolute best case scenario is that its not painful/uncomfortable, and maybe you get a bit of a thrill being the submissive one?

@Batgin That's why I say I worry it could backfire and put her in danger....but I think the likelihood of any of them agreeing is slim. Plus, I do think it's a reasonable tactic, if a girl needs to buy some time to think.

Dd2 is 15 very beautiful and cool as are her friends. None have boyfriends. Boys float around are at parties etc and would obviously love to be with them (I observed the group at a festival mournfully followed round by boys) but the female friendships are key. Very intense they are very kind to each other and seem to have a great time cinema / shopping / hanging out etc. I wonder if teen girls are withdrawing from relationships because they see what is expected of them by boys? And the grim porn focussing on them 🤮🤮. And who can blame them frankly.

Yes, some do like those things. I like dressing up, so did my late DH. We played games which we enjoye, they did not include anal sex (why bother, as far as a woman is concerned) or bondage. But the games you enumerate are not mainstream and making it seem as though they are can put pressure on people who do not like them to participate.

Certainly my DSD17 is actively refusing relationships with boys for this reason. She finds it too grim.

My DD has been in a relationship for 7 years, I absolutely trust that her bf respects her and doesn't expect this at all.
I'm so happy that at least it's one less way to worry about her.
(She's an "ally", but that's a different conversation)

Yes a lovely known long term like minded boyfriend or no boyfriend. The aggressive porn addled lad types and the swaggering gang members men are going to find they only have their hands and the porn on their phones for female company

I can’t say because I said I dont do anal, it’s not for me but I wouldn’t deny anyone’s experience. I can come from my nipple being touched so you know doesn’t link to my clit or vulva does it. If someone says they find it pleasurable and they can then who are you or I to say they can’t 🤷‍♀️ because you don’t agree that someone can’t find anal pleasurable.

Pegging is a bit of a thing now so you never know 🤷‍♀️

Exactly this. No one other than my sexual partner knows what kinks I may or may not have, because I don't normalise them all over the internet.

And getting this back to the original topic: there is no safe way to partially strangle someone, and anyone who seeks to normalise or minimalise non-fatal strangulation needs to be aware of that. For the women who claim to love it...why would you put a partner at risk of causing you serious damage or death? And what kind of man is comfortable agreeing to it?

I really hate to give you the bad news but they really can and plenty of them.

I won't share too many details, but I've been there when it happened, it's not that rare.

Just curious. What does everyone mean by 'vanilla' sex?

Not to mention anal sex being expected.

Anyone who ‘enjoys’ being choked during sex, male or female, is risking their health and their life. Medical staff are counselled not to use someone’s carotid artery to take a pulse because even putting two fingers pressure can cause cardiac arrhythmias. A man’s hand has an incredible amount of strength. Neck structures are alarmingly fragile and blocking the jugular vein can take less pressure than opening a can of Coke.

The constant inclusion of kink as normal and the constant pushing of boundaries is absolutely ruining our DDs lives. Anal tears in young women account for the most common health clinic visits in American campuses. Just what the hell are we doing to our teens and young adults, and I include boys and girls here, leading them to believe it’s ‘normal’ or healthy to choke or be choked etc. when it is just not.

i was listening to a song today and was shocked by the lyrics ‘I'm vanilla, baby, I'll choke you, but I ain't no killer, baby’… this is a well known mainstream song that our kids are singing along to. Makes me want to weep.

I’ll add that anal tears are one reason why the AIDS epidemic ran rampant for gay men in the 80’s and early 90’s and frequent anal sex sadly often leads to fecal incontinence when you get older.

"It does feel good for me. Why is that so hard to belive...because it goes againt the narritive that women get nothing out of it and it's all for men?"

I can't believe I'm actually talking about this on MN of all places, but I'm the same as @Batgin - I also enjoy it, it's pleasurable. 🙈
Not in an emotional sense as has been suggested, but in a physical sense - Idk what to say, it makes me orgasm. There's no "humiliation" or "Derogatory" aspect to it for me that makes it enjoyable, it just is.
I get that not all women will get that, but I definitely do and I'm certainly not lying or making it up either!!
I get it's hard to understand for those who can't/won't want to experience it - but it genuinely is a thing!

Any sex that isn't 'kink', such as missionary. It's the modern equivalent of calling people (usually girls) 'frigid', and is often used in a disdainful or scornful way

"No, there is no way a woman can come from anal sex alone."

I'm sorry but that's just not true.
I get it might not be for you, but just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Hate to break it to you, but some women in fact prefer to masturbate anally rather than vaginally too! Or are they also lying and doing it for men when they're on their own in their own house? :S

Like PP have said the main issue is lack of talking about it openly and honestly imo.
Yeah if your only experience of choking or anal is from hardcore porn and the guy hasn't looked into it at all or done any research ofc it's going to be horrible and painful!!

But if you've taken time to communicate and adequately prepare (If what you're doing needs prep) then there's no reason it has to be horrible or abusive in any way.

Sure some women may well be lying that they enjoy these things, but not all of them are! 🙈

Really don’t understand how being choked would be in any way enjoyable

It is not just that you may not like it, strangulation is dangerous. I do not mean that you could die (it's rare but possible) but that you will be damaged mentally. That was part of the Womans' Hour presentation, that research shows a slowing down of mental capacity in young women who have engaged in strangulation during sex - tests were on women who had had this experience 4 x in a month, within the last months, compared to women who had not done this.

I’m well aware of the risks, which is why I made it clear on what I was referring to when I speak about it. I do not do and will not do proper “breath play” (I don’t like that term but I think it captures what I’m trying to say) My comment was to say this isn’t new someone I trusted and loved did it to me when I was 17 when he was 17 nearly 20 years ago and I was trying to recall how it made me feel. It isn’t a new thing this has been common since I first had sex 20years ago. Stuff he did with me when I was young and naive has had adverse effects on some of my sex life 20 years later. so I am totally against this being promoted on SM and within young people I know it has adverse affects I’ve lived it, I’m just trying to say I think it is more obvious now but not new. I don’t go screaming and dancing to anyone about what I do in the bedroom so 100% not promoting it.

And anal sex is dangerous as well as uncomfortable and pointless for women. The tissue round the anus are more delicate in women than in men, and can be easily damaged. Also the woman may become anally incontinent if anal intercourse is frequent.

First and foremost what young people need to properly understand is that porn is there for what it looks like to the viewer, not for what it feels like for the people taking part.
Copying porn is like making food adverts with the fake food rather than actually eating nice food... its sole purpose is to prompt a reaction from looking at it.

Sounds obvious but I get the impression this isn't clear to many young people.

This has always been the same since I lost my Virginity. It hasn’t changed in 20 years. I remember my boyfriend telling me oh they do this in porn why won’t you do this…I didn’t watch it I didn’t know what he was on about half the time. I was naive well actually probably not I was 17 and he got what was “normal” (what I would call now sexual aggression) from watching porn back then anal, deep throating, choking, 3somes, toys etc - the worrying thing for me is 1)people are thinking this is new 2) that it hasn’t changed and we are saying the same thing 20 years on. Porn has been easily accessible for years on the internet through the YouTube type sites, it’s now just on SM too. I could bang on about it all day I was too young and these girls are too young to be doing this stuff, it has an adverse affect on me at times. I genuinely don’t think people care as nothing has changed as much as I’ve heard forever porn isn’t real