Discussion on R4 Woman's Hour on choking during sex

[MimiGC]

Has made me want to weep. What young women have to put up with now, under the guise of it being mainstream, cool and expected, really does make me want to cry. My daughter is 17, not yet sexually active, but I guess it won't be long before she is - what kind of a world are we sending our girls into, where being strangled, with all the risks that entails, is seen as normal?

I’d say all men

As others have said, strangulation van really easily lead to death - there was a case on a New York subway where a man stepped in to restrain another man (who was acting crazy) and ended up accidentally killing him and facing a murder/manslaughter charge. And the parts of the media criticising him were criticising his choice to restrain the dead man in a choke hold - because any kind of neck restraint is too dangerous even where the other person is themself dangerous. Then WHY do some of those same people think it magically becomes less dangerous in the bedroom.

I also think even if someone genuinely finds being strangled a turn on - why would you ask your partner to do that to you knowing that (if they are decent) they wouldn't enjoy hurting you AND are actually at risk of ruining their own lives if it goes wrong. Men/Teenage boys also shouldn't feel like they have to do this to please their partner and its truly fucked up that people who should know better are pushing it.

Your post reads, to me, like this has had quite an adverse effect on your life, if that is so, have you considered getting support eg counselling? Hope you are okay

? the clitoris can be stimulated from inside the vagina?

Am l missing something?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow yes, the clitoris is mostly internal and is shaped a bit like a wish bone. What most people thing of as the clitoris, is actually just the tip of the iceberg. In total the whole clitoris structure is about 3 1/2 to 4 1/4 inches long and about 2 1/2 inches wide

Something I learnt (via GNC Benji who has been working her way through many huge texts) that is really radical is that some radical feminist tomes discussed non penetrative sex as being really important as for some women penetration is not as pleasurable as penetration.

I must say that it is a message I absorbed somehow somewhere in the 90s and my partners had too. May have been a hangover from the aids crisis, who knows. But it did mean in my relationships that there was no pressure to have penetration. Feels like a world away from what young women are experiencing now

And a lot more focus on my pleasure.

Thats really quite judgemental and untrue, not up to you to tell people what sex they can enjoy or not.

I’m fine now but had such a bad relationship with sex for a long time in my early twenties and I believe it was from learning about sex like this, at the time to me it was normal and we were in a loving relationship, it’s only as I’m older in well aware it was not normal to be doing that at 17/18.

i grew up got into a stable relationship and learnt boundaries. I posted later down the thread, it gives you an idea of what, but 17/18 year olds shouldn’t be exposed to it in my opinion, it’s harmful, and it winds me up people thinking this is a new thing when it’s not, and the same conversations are just repeated again. People who can influence change don’t want to or it would have been done by now and SM is fuelling an already old and existing issue.

My ex was lovely honestly and I genuinely think he would be mortified if I was back in touch and said how it effected me. it’s not good for girls as we tend to be at the receiving end of it and boys are learning from really bad stuff, I don’t blame him in the slightest literally both kids trying to explore sex I guess who only had porn for reference.

Jesus Christ, I can't believe this thread started talking about the risks of choking during sex and has devolved into people offering up details of their sex lives that have nothing to do with choking.

I listened to this too with horror but I've known for ages it's 'the thing' these days (although they didn't also mention slapping, being spat on, hair pulling, etc.).

I noticed that the woman who was talking kept saying 'people' strangling others but surely she meant almost exclusively men doing it!!? I've not heard of women doing this to men! (But maybe they are.)

After the discussion, some listeners responses were read out and I was really surprised to hear some men saying women were asking to be strangled.

It's very sad for our young girls that this is how their sex life will play out - being brutalised and disrespected within a relationship and probably not having the confidence or agency to say no.

And also sad for boys that peer pressure and pressure from social media and the internet means many will never experience sex in an emotional and loving way.

Just appalling and the government needs to start bringing in laws to protect our innocent children.

Not all men. My late DH was willing to try lots of things, but not strangulation.

No, it's not up to me to tell people what to do, but anal sex can cause problems for women, tears in the anus, for example, and if frequent can cause the sphincter muscle to become less effective. There was nothing judgemental about what I said, it was a factual statement, much the same as that smoking damages your health.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/11/rise-in-popularity-of-anal-sex-has-led-to-health-problems-for-women

What I meant.

To those saying "but some women enjoy it" - so what? Society has conditioned men and women into a culture of finding women's submission and humiliation sexy. If this was just about sex positivity then straight men would be asking to be strangled but they're not. It never had to be this way and the more we normalise it the worse it gets.

Fwiw, I don't disagree that there's conditioning going on as a result of more extreme porn - However there are 100% straight men out there who are into being choked also.
Submissive straight men exist, I see it every day multiple times a day on the art site I do commissions on for example!
Generally they're just too shy/insecure to actually ask for it in practise :S

Not anywhere near 100%.

@Grammarnut I was saying straight men that are into choking 100% exist, not that 100% of men want to be choked! 😂

If I had that kind of data at my fingertips I'd definitely not be doing art for pervy people with too much money on their hands, and I certainly wouldn't be keeping that info to myself!! 😂

You said it was pointless for women, that’s what I have an issue with.

Funnily enough, many years ago I knew a young man who died because of his growing interest in using asphyxiation during sex. He was only 27, and left behind a deeply heartbroken family and friends (like me) for whom his exciting new edginess all looked especially pointless and sad in retrospect.

So yes, some men too. And it's dangerous for them as well.

Ok I might be talking complete crap however this is how I see it.

I've always thought that women into BDSM have started out having 'vanilla' sex - having fun exploring their bodies & sexuality with a partner.

At some point, they realise they want more then they move onto BDSM, again taking it slowly & finding out what they enjoy.

But my whole point is, they have been able to discover what they like, not got into bed with a man & find themselves being throttled & spat on straight off.

Nowadays, it seems men skip the whole foreplay, finding out what a woman likes, and go straight to BDSM moves without knowing what they're doing & not caring if the woman likes it.

Unless your turn on is submission and being totally dominated then anal sex is pointless (as well as dangerous) for women. There are no pleasure sensors in the anus and all this about the clitoris being reachable from the anus is not biologically true. But if you like it and are happy with the health coutcomes, do have anal sex - I am not stopping you, or judging.

You literally are judging, with your tone and words, not to mention the untruths and exaggerations. As other women here have told you, plenty of people can reach an orgasm without going anywhere near the clitoris, and millions of women happily and regularly reach orgasm from anal stimulation, either penetrative or otherwise.

You can't, or possibly don't because of your cultural prejudices, but you should recognise those for what they are, opinions, not facts.

Jesus christ 🤦‍♀️ what is happening? My DD is 12 and I'm horrified at what will be "expected" from her.

I can honestly say at 35 I've never met a man who thought choking is mainstream - ones who have wanted to try it, yes, but accepted it wasn't "the norm"

Porn has a lot to answer for