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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:50

Softycatchymonkeys · 20/04/2024 07:19

Labour’s stance on TWAW is, for me, so fundamentally wrong at such a core level of reality that I just don’t know how anyone could trust them with their vote, because it undermines everything else they say. If they can’t describe reality, then how can they govern a country?

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female, will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

I understand why people are annoyed with them, but this post is factually incorrect and misleading.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:52

duc748 · 19/04/2024 23:01

Food banks.

NHS on its knees.

Schools literally crumbling.

Sewage in our rivers and water supplies.

Quite apart from anything, do you really have any confidence that Labour will do any more to fix these problems than the Tories? I don't. But if they can't treat women with respect and dignity, they don't deserve anyone's vote.

Yes. Because they fixed them last time they were in power.
I'm old enough to remember the dying days of the Conservatives in the 1990s - people dying on trolleys, horrendous NHS waiting lists, rough sleepers everywhere. That was all gone under nu Labour. The Tories brought it all back.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:53

And do you know what? I hated nu Labour. But after 14 years of increasingly despotic Tories, they look like halcyon days. I'd give my eye teeth to have Blair or Brown in charge instead of these nitwits. Starmer is very competent too.

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 21:55

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female,

Is it indeed, that is not what KS has said nor is it what many of the Labour frontbench say, their stance includes TW.

will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

Pray tell how are they going to do this? Where have they said exactly how this will be achieved?

HappyEater · 20/04/2024 21:59

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:50

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female, will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

I understand why people are annoyed with them, but this post is factually incorrect and misleading.

Where have they said this? 99% they said

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 22:00

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 21:55

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female,

Is it indeed, that is not what KS has said nor is it what many of the Labour frontbench say, their stance includes TW.

will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

Pray tell how are they going to do this? Where have they said exactly how this will be achieved?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-woman-anneliese-dodds-b2382675.html

With respect yo your second question, I believe they are going to make it clearer when and how to apply the exemptions in the EA. And review the GRC process. Both a lot more than the Conservatives are committing to. But you know that.

I understand some Labour voters have been badly let down and don't believe them. But that doesn't excuse spreading misinformation.

Keir Starmer says ‘a woman is an adult female’ on self-identification system

Labour leader’s comments come after party rows back plans to introduce self-ID system for transgender people

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-woman-anneliese-dodds-b2382675.html

lechiffre55 · 20/04/2024 22:02

If JKR was to stand as a candidate I think the result would really shock the idiots into finally taking notice. I'd pay my money to see that even knowing how rich she is.

EasternStandard · 20/04/2024 22:02

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 21:55

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female,

Is it indeed, that is not what KS has said nor is it what many of the Labour frontbench say, their stance includes TW.

will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

Pray tell how are they going to do this? Where have they said exactly how this will be achieved?

Labour change on this often but there’s no indication they’ve dropped the definition of legal female sex including males with a GRC

Also no indication of which spaces will be limited and how

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 22:09

With respect yo your second question, I believe they are going to make it clearer when and how to apply the exemptions in the EA. And review the GRC process. Both a lot more than the Conservatives are committing to. But you know that.

You believe they are going to make it clearer, wow that instils confidence. Yes, they are going to review the GRC process to make it easier and remove any form of medical diagnosis, fucking brilliant.

I want to know exactly what they are proposing to do, I want it in black and white, why would they be so shy to spell it out?

Where have they said this? 99% they said

Well quite, and you can't see the glaring problem with this? Coupled with the further watering down of the GRC process?

songaboutjam · 20/04/2024 22:12

I don't trust a word of what Starmer says on the "definition of a woman" issue. He's proven himself to be weaselly (talk of "safe spaces" not "single sex" spaces), flip-floppy (rowing back now for example) and a total liar (implying women can have premises penises - - blame autocorrect).

Many of his MPs are on record as saying TWAW.

He has no convictions of his own. He'll say whatever is politically convenient. He will be incredibly vulnerable to the lobbying that will be the death throes of the trans rights movement.

I'm not likely to be in the UK during the election and making sure I can still vote will be a faff. Given the quality of the political offerings, my energies may be better spent elsewhere.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 22:14

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 22:09

With respect yo your second question, I believe they are going to make it clearer when and how to apply the exemptions in the EA. And review the GRC process. Both a lot more than the Conservatives are committing to. But you know that.

You believe they are going to make it clearer, wow that instils confidence. Yes, they are going to review the GRC process to make it easier and remove any form of medical diagnosis, fucking brilliant.

I want to know exactly what they are proposing to do, I want it in black and white, why would they be so shy to spell it out?

Where have they said this? 99% they said

Well quite, and you can't see the glaring problem with this? Coupled with the further watering down of the GRC process?

They aren't removing any form of medical diagnosis, in fact they've said that medical diagnosis is key to the process Confused

They are making the process more efficient, that's a good thing surely?

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 22:21

They aren't removing any form of medical diagnosis, in fact they've said that medical diagnosis is key to the process

Actually they did, but they may well have rowed back on it now since they've back tracked on Self Id.

They are making the process more efficient, that's a good thing surely?

How is it inefficient? It is hardly onerous as it is and it is cheap.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/04/2024 22:25

It's a good thing women have been keeping receipts about what Labour politicians actually say isn't it?

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?lang=en

I know that Streeting has publicly regretted his previous TWAW comments and the relentless bullying of women in the party for speaking out for women's rights and child safeguarding. But he's one lone voice. Too many of them have supported indefensible positions about the eradication of women's rights and language and safeguarding children.
Once they've found their integrity and start behaving like politicians, not activists, then maybe we'll be able to return to voting for them again?

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?lang=en

agent765 · 20/04/2024 22:40

Geebray · 19/04/2024 19:51

Labour will be back to TWAW as soon as they've won the election.

And in all other matters, all the parties seem the same.

I'm fed up with hearing Starmer saying Labour will cure the country's ills but doesn't say how even when asked directly.

I was brought up Labour, and have always voted Labour. I'm voting Tory (shudder!) in the next election purely because all the others will just shit all over women's rights.

The country is suffering many of the same woes as the rest of the world at the moment so NO party will be able to change many things.

I'd like to hear how Labour will come in and sort my other concerns such as the NHS but the only thing he repeats is that he will. With no inkling of how.

If Labour or any other party had a magic bullet they would be crowing about it. But they don't so I'll be voting on the TWAW and other women's rights issues.

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2024 23:04

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:50

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female, will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

I understand why people are annoyed with them, but this post is factually incorrect and misleading.

At least when campaigning for Labour, have the good grace not to treat MNetters like idiots.

We know this is bollocks. Starmer has said that only 99% of women don't have bollocks.

The 1% he clings to, is the problematic bit.

I find your attempt to spread disinformation distasteful in the context of stories about this today.

This is a lie. You know it's a lie. And you are trying to pass it off as truth because you are so fanatical about Labour.

It's not cool. Really not cool.

Imnobody4 · 20/04/2024 23:18

And Dawn Butler smears Cass in the HOC under parliamentary privilege. Has she apologised or been disciplined.

Meanwhile Cass is advised not to use public transport. What action is he going to take. Have I missed his support for the report.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 23:23

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2024 23:04

At least when campaigning for Labour, have the good grace not to treat MNetters like idiots.

We know this is bollocks. Starmer has said that only 99% of women don't have bollocks.

The 1% he clings to, is the problematic bit.

I find your attempt to spread disinformation distasteful in the context of stories about this today.

This is a lie. You know it's a lie. And you are trying to pass it off as truth because you are so fanatical about Labour.

It's not cool. Really not cool.

Get real. It's not misinformation. It is their policy. You don't believe them, I understand that. It's impossible to prove a belief though.

Starmer is correct that 0.01% of the population are "women with penises". Biologically male, legally women. No party are proposing changing that.

I'd rather have a prime minister who is honest, even if it's not popular, than a liar.

Floisme · 20/04/2024 23:23

I will wait and see if Labour clarify in their manifesto what they mean by single sex services and spaces. Likewise conversion therapy. If they don't make it clear then they can whistle for my vote.

But this thread is supposed to be about Jean Hatchet's article which, for me, sums up superbly how many Labour supporters feel about the way we've been treated by the party for trying to raise these issues.

It's about the rage - fully justified - that so many of us feel, and how the leadership can't just throw a few 'political breadcrumbs' (her words) in our direction and expect everything to be ok. Because It's not, and indeed it's not been ok for a long time (if ever).

As far as I know, Jean Hatchet is still a party member, which makes her much more patient and loyal than I am. An article like that from someone like her should by rights ring a few alarm bells, but I don't expect it will.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 23:25

Floisme · 20/04/2024 23:23

I will wait and see if Labour clarify in their manifesto what they mean by single sex services and spaces. Likewise conversion therapy. If they don't make it clear then they can whistle for my vote.

But this thread is supposed to be about Jean Hatchet's article which, for me, sums up superbly how many Labour supporters feel about the way we've been treated by the party for trying to raise these issues.

It's about the rage - fully justified - that so many of us feel, and how the leadership can't just throw a few 'political breadcrumbs' (her words) in our direction and expect everything to be ok. Because It's not, and indeed it's not been ok for a long time (if ever).

As far as I know, Jean Hatchet is still a party member, which makes her much more patient and loyal than I am. An article like that from someone like her should by rights ring a few alarm bells, but I don't expect it will.

Conservatives also pursuing conversion therapy. I trust you will be equally sceptical of them floisme?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/conversion-therapy-ban-kemi-badenoch-says-work-ongoing-on-new-laws/

Conversion therapy ban: Kemi Badenoch says work ongoing on new laws and she's NOT blocking it

Ministers are still working up new laws to ban conversion therapy, the Business Secretary has told LBC.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/conversion-therapy-ban-kemi-badenoch-says-work-ongoing-on-new-laws

Floisme · 20/04/2024 23:35

Your regular polite reminder that I'm not interested in engaging with you Adam.

Imnobody4 · 20/04/2024 23:35

Adam, you really are getting desperate. Give it a rest.

duc748 · 20/04/2024 23:41

@Floisme I'm also still a Party member (just), and I agree with every word of JH's piece. I am unlikely to vote Labour unless I see a real positive sea-change, and I think that's very unlikely.

Floisme · 20/04/2024 23:44

It's instructive to see how, even on a thread that's expressly about how the Labour Party have failed to listen to us, we're still not being listened to.

Floisme · 20/04/2024 23:47

duc748 · 20/04/2024 23:41

@Floisme I'm also still a Party member (just), and I agree with every word of JH's piece. I am unlikely to vote Labour unless I see a real positive sea-change, and I think that's very unlikely.

Sorry cross post. I don't expect anything to change either.

localnotail · 20/04/2024 23:51

thistimelastweek · 19/04/2024 20:43

FFS.

This is all the Tories have got.

Single issues that their right wing press allies throw out to distract voters from everything else.

Like everything else.

Food banks.

NHS on its knees.

Schools literally crumbling.

Sewage in our rivers and water supplies.

And the list goes on....

I am so frustrated with this crap about TWAW or not when the country is falling apart. I cant understand who are these people for whom this is the MAIN issue, what kind of bubble you live in? You are not using the NHS, your kids go to private schools? You are not interested in the environmental problems, not bothered about corrupt government allowing creeps like Michelle Munro (or whatever her name is) getting away with literally stealing millions? No one had any security, buying or even renting a place to live is now a luxury, everything is so bloody expensive even people who work full time have to use food banks? You have not seen what has happened to this country during the last 13 years?... and all you care about is a single issue which, while important, is a very fringe problem compared to the rest of the shit show?

Sorry about the rant but come on, really???