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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Waitwhat23 · 21/04/2024 10:45

I've always found Labour's long held stance of 'well, we might be better than the Tories so vote for us, you thickos!' to be utterly bizarre.

No inspiring policies. Very few politicians that you think 'I'm proud that you're my representative'.

No, no. Just 'we're a bit less shit than the Tories. Maybe. If we can magic up money from somewhere.'

It really doesn't inspire a poster, does it?

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 10:45

So Labour promotion on here is to ignore women

It’s pretty obvious that’s the party line

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:49

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 10:45

So Labour promotion on here is to ignore women

It’s pretty obvious that’s the party line

You give me way too much credit Eastern. I'm not following the party line. I'm a member and that's as far as it goes. Not campaigning, not active, not aware of "the party line".

Also I am a woman, and there are plenty of women who are trans accepting. If the "party line" was TWAM, women with a different view would be ignored. You are being pretty black and white. Women aren't a hive mind.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:50

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:47

I don't have a subscription to read this in full or provide a share token, but the Tories are considering putting in their manifesto what they'll amend the EA to resolve the GRA / GRC loophole: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/03/16/rishi-sunak-amend-equality-act-single-sex-spaces-sport/#:~:text=During%20the%20summer%202022%20leadership,bodily%20privacy%20and%20dignity%2C%20such

They've been "mulling" that for over a year. I was hoping it would be in the King's Speech. They just need to get on with it at this point.

Swashbuckled · 21/04/2024 10:50

Just had the Labour canvasser at my door. Told him my current views and concerns about Labour. He was smiling throughout. I asked him about the smiling, explaining I felt this to be a very serious issue. And that I wanted him to take my views back with him, which he said he would.

I asked him his own view on single sex spaces. He said he didn’t feel he could have an opinion as he was a man, and it was a women’s issue. I explained why he needed to raise his awareness. He said he wasn’t aware really of the issues I was raising. He asked me if I could point him to places where he could brush up his knowledge. I think he was humouring me, and trying to present a face of amenable humility on the doorstep.

He said I was the only person to have raised this. I don’t think he took me seriously and think he saw me as some far outlier. It was disappointingly weak encounter.

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:51

'Trans accepting'? What does that mean? You can accept trans people without thinking they change sex. Hell, my transman friend knows that your sex isn't changed, just your gender.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:52

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:47

I don't have a subscription to read this in full or provide a share token, but the Tories are considering putting in their manifesto what they'll amend the EA to resolve the GRA / GRC loophole: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/03/16/rishi-sunak-amend-equality-act-single-sex-spaces-sport/#:~:text=During%20the%20summer%202022%20leadership,bodily%20privacy%20and%20dignity%2C%20such

You can read it by clicking the link then immediately going airplane mode.

Government sources said Mrs Badenoch was among those who recognised that “if we can’t do it in this Parliament it is something that many MPs want to see in our next manifesto”.

Pretty vague to be honest. We will see. Bring on the GE.

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:52

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:50

They've been "mulling" that for over a year. I was hoping it would be in the King's Speech. They just need to get on with it at this point.

At least it's likely they'll do it. You're claiming that repealing the GRA is the only way to fix it. It isn't, and it looks to be in the manifesto, which is good news.

Labour aren't offering that. They've explicitly said they won't.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 10:54

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:49

You give me way too much credit Eastern. I'm not following the party line. I'm a member and that's as far as it goes. Not campaigning, not active, not aware of "the party line".

Also I am a woman, and there are plenty of women who are trans accepting. If the "party line" was TWAM, women with a different view would be ignored. You are being pretty black and white. Women aren't a hive mind.

Whether they’ve let you personally know or not it’s obvious that’s the tactic.

You don’t mind, many do hence these threads.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:54

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:51

'Trans accepting'? What does that mean? You can accept trans people without thinking they change sex. Hell, my transman friend knows that your sex isn't changed, just your gender.

It means women who don't mind sharing some spaces with trans women, and don't feel the need to be rigidly TWAM. There are a lot of us about. In fact the polling suggests that is the majority view.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 10:55

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:52

At least it's likely they'll do it. You're claiming that repealing the GRA is the only way to fix it. It isn't, and it looks to be in the manifesto, which is good news.

Labour aren't offering that. They've explicitly said they won't.

It’s pretty much the only way to deal with the mess the GRA has created

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:56

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:54

It means women who don't mind sharing some spaces with trans women, and don't feel the need to be rigidly TWAM. There are a lot of us about. In fact the polling suggests that is the majority view.

Pretty sure the polling only showed that when it wasn't made clear how many TW kept fully-functioning genitalia.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 10:57

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:54

It means women who don't mind sharing some spaces with trans women, and don't feel the need to be rigidly TWAM. There are a lot of us about. In fact the polling suggests that is the majority view.

Which spaces do you mean exactly?

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:00

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:52

You can read it by clicking the link then immediately going airplane mode.

Government sources said Mrs Badenoch was among those who recognised that “if we can’t do it in this Parliament it is something that many MPs want to see in our next manifesto”.

Pretty vague to be honest. We will see. Bring on the GE.

But it's clear they do actually get it. Unlike Keir '0.1%' Starmer, who's too busy trying to be all things to all people (including his own MPs) to get the whacking great splinters out of his arse.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:00

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:52

At least it's likely they'll do it. You're claiming that repealing the GRA is the only way to fix it. It isn't, and it looks to be in the manifesto, which is good news.

Labour aren't offering that. They've explicitly said they won't.

They haven't said that at all. They've said they won't take any action that undermines the protections in the EA. As the EA protects all women from discrimination that's a good thing.

The idea of the Tories "updating" it is frankly terrifying, especially in the light of their rhetoric around sick leave this week.

Honestly. That bit of the debate really is turkeys voting for Christmas. Like Brexit. They've done a number on you and convinced you something really damaging for women is somehow in your interests.

You want to vote for that, knock yourself out. Who needs maternity rights anyway? The Americans seem to do fine without them Confused

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:00

This poll is Jan 2024 YouGov

I think the pp is being misleading when offering up what the majority might think

What people really don’t want is gender neutral only, that is a strong reaction against mixed sex

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election
EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:02

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:00

They haven't said that at all. They've said they won't take any action that undermines the protections in the EA. As the EA protects all women from discrimination that's a good thing.

The idea of the Tories "updating" it is frankly terrifying, especially in the light of their rhetoric around sick leave this week.

Honestly. That bit of the debate really is turkeys voting for Christmas. Like Brexit. They've done a number on you and convinced you something really damaging for women is somehow in your interests.

You want to vote for that, knock yourself out. Who needs maternity rights anyway? The Americans seem to do fine without them Confused

That’s ok a few of us think the same with Labour and your allegiance.

Turkeys

Done a number etc

NecessaryScene · 21/04/2024 11:02

Which spaces do you mean exactly?

Mixed-sex ones presumably? Because "single sex spaces are important to me".

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:03

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:00

They haven't said that at all. They've said they won't take any action that undermines the protections in the EA. As the EA protects all women from discrimination that's a good thing.

The idea of the Tories "updating" it is frankly terrifying, especially in the light of their rhetoric around sick leave this week.

Honestly. That bit of the debate really is turkeys voting for Christmas. Like Brexit. They've done a number on you and convinced you something really damaging for women is somehow in your interests.

You want to vote for that, knock yourself out. Who needs maternity rights anyway? The Americans seem to do fine without them Confused

I am fucking sick to the back teeth of the left lot on here claiming that we're all going to vote Tory. It's lazy thinking and really fucking rude, given how many times you've been told that many of us have nobody to vote for.

And stop telling me what I think or believe. It makes you look arrogant.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:05

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:00

This poll is Jan 2024 YouGov

I think the pp is being misleading when offering up what the majority might think

What people really don’t want is gender neutral only, that is a strong reaction against mixed sex

Come on. You know you have to define "women".
I'd answer toilets for men and women, but I don't care if TW are considered women in that context. Lots of women feel the same. You are ignoring us.

Snowypeaks · 21/04/2024 11:06

I'll happily share any space with a man who claims to be a woman that I would share with a man who doesn't. So not single sex services, sports or spaces.

A woman who claims to be a man has as much right to be in women's single sex spaces as any woman.

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:06

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:05

Come on. You know you have to define "women".
I'd answer toilets for men and women, but I don't care if TW are considered women in that context. Lots of women feel the same. You are ignoring us.

We don't care what you think. Other women's rights to have single sex spaces are not yours to give away.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:07

NecessaryScene · 21/04/2024 11:02

Which spaces do you mean exactly?

Mixed-sex ones presumably? Because "single sex spaces are important to me".

Not the etiquette to pull posts across threads. Single sex spaces are important to me. Personally though idgaf about TW using the ladies. And I'm entitled to my own view on that.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:08

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:06

We don't care what you think. Other women's rights to have single sex spaces are not yours to give away.

Rude and unnecessary.

You don't get to speak for "all women" either.