Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

[IwantToRetire]

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

Labour has shown themself, in this, to be moronic, cowardly, conniving, and untrustworthy.

They also clearly have very serious problems in their institutional structures as a party.

That's not a set of characteristics that is only going to impact a "single issue".

The NHS which lied to the police when a woman had been raped. The indoctrination which makes it easier for rapes and attacks on women. Stupid women for not wanting to be vulnerable, or wanting some dignity. huh.

Prisons which lock women up with rapists, other violent males and stressed out by the presence of males who say they too are women. Women getting extra punishment when not good likkle girlies and pretend the man is a woman as he wants. Lisa Nandy wants the special men to be able to go exactly where they want. If that means women suffer, who cares.

Education which is teaching made up, anti scientific, ideological balderdash. Bathrooms set up where girls in a state of undress have to negotiate intimate areas with teenage boys getting access. Stories of girls not wanting to go during their period in such circumstances, or depriving themselves of water so as not to have to be in that uncomfortable space.

Sports, funding, safe and fair access, representation in public life. Organise as a sex class for representation without hostility for not pretending we are a discrete class. The list goes on and on, and on ad nauseum.

That is on top of all the other stuff.

Well said. Labour has proven (among other things):

They don't understand biology, since they're on record as saying that only most women have cervixes and no penises.

They jump onto fashionable bandwagons regardless of scientific evidence, harm to other groups or how silly / credulous it makes them look.

They lie through their teeth ("it never comes up on the doorstep").

They malign and treat their own politicians like crap (Rosie Duffield).

They're a shockingly mealy mouthed opposition party and don't have the first clue how to take advantage of bad Tory policies.

They subscribe to the laws of misogyny (a man is whatever he says he is and a woman is whatever a man says she is).

They have enormous support from bullies and the comfortable middle classes, whilst holding working and low middle class people in thinly veiled contempt.

In light of all this, what on earth is Labour selling that a) we can trust them to deliver and b) isn't just "not the Tories"?

Forgot to mention the police harassing women who stand up for their rights. The courageous Jenni Swayne who was arrested for putting up stickers about the rights of women. The police being used (and quite happily acted) to harass Kelly Jay Keen for being ‘untoward about paedophiles’. Women congregating being told to disperse when other groups were not restricted, or suppressed. Women talking about women’s rights brought in for questioning, and their property searched.

Yeah, if only it was the state of a building. It is that as well, along with harassment and discrimination by organs of the state.

Food banks.

NHS on its knees.

Schools literally crumbling.

Sewage in our rivers and water supplies.

Quite apart from anything, do you really have any confidence that Labour will do any more to fix these problems than the Tories? I don't. But if they can't treat women with respect and dignity, they don't deserve anyone's vote.

Pretty much every single pro-transgender policy we have has come about under a Tory government, let's not kid ourselves they're competent to get us out of this mess however much they mightike to posture against it.

Labour legislation allowed it and the Tories left the civil service and public sector institutions to it, as Tories are wont to do. It wasn't a proactive move as such, they were asleep at the wheel.

They've acknowledged they have been the party in charge this week during the Cass discussions. At least it looks like they're trying to fix it now.

They have enormous support from bullies and the comfortable middle classes, whilst holding working and low middle class people in thinly veiled contempt.

TBH, this personally is the bit that really bothers me most.

The moment I was condescended to by a privately educated, immensely privileged (now ex) friend was the moment my last shreds of political affiliation disappeared into the wind.

I don't really have a claim on being working class, and I'm very fortunate to have attended university (although I nearly didn't). But I grew up in a family where we rarely had much money, didn't get foreign holidays, grew up barely affording central heating, and were beneficiaries of several bursaries. I have taken minimum wage and blue collar work my entire adult life because there was nothing else available. Sorry to my ex-friend, but "ambition" doesn't pay my bills.

I do not appreciate privileged Labour voters who've never worked shifts / manual jobs / unsociable hours and grew up holidaying on tropical islands, implying they think they know better than me.

As someone who lives in a Labour borough which has the second worst record on the condition of their housing and treatment of tenants, I dont understand how anyone can think Labour in government will be any better.

And everyday in terms of policies and priorities is a snub to the traditional working class established communities in favour of the rich incomers who have their leisure time activities pandered to at the expense of basic services.

Let alone the PPP that have put many schools and hospitals into a state of permenant debt, much like developing countries who pay out more in loan repayments than current expenditure.

The list is endless.

To anyone claiming that Labour's stance on gender has just been them avoiding a conservative "culture war", don't forget that at their last leadership contest, 3 of the 4 candidates, signed a pledge on trans rights that amonhst other nonsense called Woman’s Place UK and LGB Alliance "trans-exclusionist hate groups".
The Tories didn't make them do that did they? Labour were willingly and idiotically leaping into the fray.

There has been progress in the right direction though given the Cass review, and puberty blocker ban plus stopping GRR Scotland

The GRA is Labour legislation which they will defend

It’s also worth comparing with other countries similarly using gender ideology. The U.K. is starting to lead in reversing the harms

An abusive relationship is exactly what it is.

Jean said, Many feminist women who have stayed loyal to the Labour Party (despite leadership refusal to debate with, or give them any semblance of fair hearing on, the trans issue), have done so because they know that a Labour Party in government is crucial to provide the public services and social care so vital to the most vulnerable people in society, particularly women and children. It has been an act of sacrifice for the greater good, which, it seems, has largely been taken for granted by Labour leaders.

This has been going on for years, and many of the women remaining loyal no matter what remind me of mothers staying with violent men to protect their children, because they're scared what he'll do to the children instead if the family courts award him unsupervised access in a divorce.

It's a horrific bind that countless women are in across the country, and I understand it's a terrifying choice for women. I may be forced to vote Labour in the end, but they can't make me pretend to love them.

Labour’s stance on TWAW is, for me, so fundamentally wrong at such a core level of reality that I just don’t know how anyone could trust them with their vote, because it undermines everything else they say. If they can’t describe reality, then how can they govern a country?

Can't see a way out of this except a begruded vote for Labour ,as who else is there ?!

What a ridiculous comment.

If someone was trying to smear me as a racist, let's say, they would have a hell of a job of proving it because nothing I say or do points to me being racist.

The Labour Party have led a sustained and misogynistic attack on women for the last decade. The Tories do not need to develop a smear campaign to prove this because it's true. There is absolutely no way of getting away from this. Labour MPs have called women vile names for standing up for their and for children's rights. They have made their intentions with regards to the Equality Act etc very clear.

They have tried to gaslight an entire nation into disregarding biological fact. This is not a single issue. It goes to the very heart of a blind adherence to a flawed ideology that has caused and has the potential to continue causing significant harm to 50% of the country's population. People are scared for their children, their rights, their jobs and their right to free speech.

Do not minimise women's rights and women's issues. Would you tell any other marginalised group in society to shut up and put up with a political party that is literally trying to redefine their existence on the planet? It is a huge issue.

What I think is staggering is that it's reduced to this argument.

Politics in this country is in such a state, that even despite all of this that the Tory party ARE responsible, women can't find a desire to vote FOR Labour. Wtf does that say about Labour?

Politics has become all about how we should be manipulated to vote for the least worse option even though none of the other parties respect women and really offer much for the interests of women.

All options are essentially a vote against women's interests and there's a whole bunch of women MPs in positions of power within these parties that are facilitating this for the own benefit of their careers rather than for the best interests of the public.

THAT is why public trust in politicians is at an all time low. Because almost every goddam last one of them is self serving and hasn't been prepared to speak out when they should have. And they continue to fail to do so now in most cases.

This is not ok to try and emotionally blackmail women into who they should vote for.

We should be demanding more and better from each and every party. Merely zombie like voting for them over and over again as the least worst option is not ok.

We’ve been “bought in” to this for years. Labour hasn’t listened.

It’s not us who are cynical and insincere.

3 of the 4 candidates, signed a pledge on trans rights that amonhst other nonsense called Woman’s Place UK and LGB Alliance "trans-exclusionist hate groups

That could be reported as a homophobic hate incident these days.

If there is no good, independent candidate I will spoil my vote. NONE OF THE ABOVE is a positive statement. If enough people abstain visibly on their ballot papers it sends a strong message.

The first time I helped campaign for Labour was in 1979. I was delivering Eve of Poll cards in what should have been a Labour stronghold and someone set their dogs on me. I mention it because it was the moment when I realised we were definitely going to lose and therefore a low point, but it was nothing compared to how I feel now.

I don't think I can put into words how let down I feel, not least by all the female Labour MPs who (with one or two honourable exceptions) have turned a blind eye to this. I sometimes wonder how many of them got where they are thanks to all women shortlists - but maybe that's for another thread.

I think I have every right to be angry. And every post I read telling me to pipe down and take one for the team makes me angrier still.

Its not just the Labour party, its also all the trade unions. They've all shown us what they think of us.
I'm going to spoil my ballot instead of getting all angst ridden about who to vote for.

And the problem is FPP in fact makes our voices and opinions more easy to overlook.

As in fact both main parties have within them many factions, who exert undue influence eg the ERG in the Tory party, I think anyone who says proportional representation gives smaller groups too much power, if over looking the fact that they already have. (Not forgetting TRA allies in parties).

And the system now means that internal party deals are behind closed doors.

If we have PR then it would be in the public domain who was barting what with whom.

For years I didn't vote because neither of the 2 mainstream parties represented how I felt. Then because of the notion that women had fought for the vote we should use it, I would vote for an independent candidate.

But now I cant be sure that any independent candidate supports women's sex based rights as it doesn't usually feature on leaflets.

This all happened under the Conservatives and isn't particularly relevant to a conversation about Labour. Same for your following post.