Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

What is a 'man' in this scenario OP? Is Elliot Page one?

identify as a gay

You're sounding a bit homophobic now OP.

What about those ‘potential physical advantages’? You mean how generally men are far stronger than women? But it’s ok if men invade single sex spaces because they wouldn’t use that strength (n any way nefariously would they?

Errmm being homosexual feels like being attracted to people the same sex as you. Just like being heterosexual feels like being attracted to people of the opposite sex. No one needs proof of this (but it absolutely can be scientifically observed).

But noone can know what it feels to be the opposite sex and it certainly can't be scientifically observed.

55 and GC; my 18yo thinks they’re trans but my 16yo (and 70% of his friends, both sexes, are GC). FWIW, I did not vote for Brexit, do not feel the earth is flat, that Hilary Clinton ran a paedo-ring from the basement of a pizzeria, or that covid was spread by telephone masts either.

How curious that you changed your question from "how does a homosexual feel like" to "how does a gay feel like".

Errmm being homosexual feels like being attracted to people the same sex as you. Just like being heterosexual feels like being attracted to people of the opposite sex. No one needs proof of this (but it absolutely can be scientifically observed)

Scientifically observed? I guess it can be

I thought it was a fair parallel.

It isn't a fair parallel. Being gay isn't remotely the same as identifying as the opposite sex.

@Inauthentic What does a homosexual feel like?
Do you believe that another man can desire another man or does he need to provide some kind of proof so that he can identify as a gay?

I haven't a clue what a homosexual feels like any more than I know what a woman' feels like' or a man' feels like' - men and women just are and who they are attracted to has no bearing on their biology

Men are men and women are women and, yes I do believe that a man can desire another man without providing proof so that he can identify as gay.

He's not identifying as anything - he is gay - he still isn't denying his basic biology though.

Again @Inauthentic please answer the question. Why does whether someone is gay affect someone else? In the way that a male claiming to be a woman affects me and my rights?

It’s not about whether something is
natural. It’s about whether one person’s rights and beliefs should be allowed to override the beliefs of others and cause them harm. I think we can all agree that’s not ok.

(For clarity, I don’t personally agree that being trans and being gay are especially related things, because the reality of biological sex is a scientific fact, not a ‘feeling’ or belief. But for the sake of this discussion, let’s look at a real-world example.)

I’m bisexual. I don’t go around demanding that straight women who find the idea of sex between women ‘unnatural’ sleep with me or accept me as a viable sexual partner. Their feelings might make me feel invalidated or bad if they don’t fancy me, but as long as they’re not harassing or discriminating against me for being bisexual, that’s my issue to deal with. I certainly don’t insist that my right to express my sexual attraction to women means I can override their boundaries, threaten them, or try to have them sacked because they don’t agree that sex between women is ‘natural’. I may not like how they feel, but I have to accept it because my rights do not override their freedom of choice.

There’s a big difference here. Being gay doesn’t involve invading the spaces of others, demanding they conform to your beliefs, or threatening their physical safety. I’m sure there are exceptions - everyone group has its share of twats - but there isn’t an overarching ideology behind being gay that demands this level of boundary-trampling and intimidation of others.

Source: am a 36 year old great big queer who has been merrily shagging people of all genitalia combinations, pronoun choices and levels of makeup wearing since before most TRAs were out of nappies. I adore it when people dress and act and call themselves what makes them happy, and enthusiastically support them in doing so, but humans can’t change sex.

I hope that makes sense! Do feel free to ask me questions, discussion is a good thing.

Where’s the research then?

I would imagine the age of your children is more indicative of your take on things than your own age.

By measuring reactions to people of you are aroused by. People have monitors attached to them and the changes in their brain chemistry can be recorded.
But on far less scientific basis it can be observed by men having sex with men rather than women.

He's not identifying as anything - he is gay - he still isn't denying his basic biology though.

Basic biology isn't just what you see though.
It's the structure of your brain, how your brain works, your hormones.

There is no parallel.

We use "biological attributes" to observe whether a person is male or female at birth. Sex is determined in the womb by the particular sperm that manages to fertilise the egg. We accept that a person may be heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. Biology is important, humans are mammals, sex is binary and immutable.

A woman or a man can choose to conform to gender stereotypes, or not, at the end of the day there is nothing they can do to change sex, no amount of (totally unnecessary) surgery, hormones, voice coaching, hair-cutting or growing will alter that they are essentially female or male - they can present in a more feminine or masculine way but they will always remain the sex determined in the womb.

"In the past many people used an argument that homosexuality is not natural. A men with penis shouldn't desire another man because it's against biology?"

The only way this is against biology is in the sense that an exclusively homosexual relationship will not result in offspring. However, homosexuality continues to exist through the millennia, throughout the evolution of the species. Perhaps this is because there is some gain to be had from two childless uncles or two childless aunties in an extended family, extra hunter-gatherers to sustain the children in the family with heterosexual parents? The family won't mind if the man couple wear dresses or the woman couple cut their hair short. Just positing my wild theory here to match your wild theory!

Why would a gay person have to prove their feelings past being their feelings because that what sexual attraction is.
Sex on the other hand isn't a feeling.

Going back to the thread title....

"show resistance" is such interesting language.

having typed all that out, I’m inclined to believe @Inauthentic may be pulling our legs, as no one immersed enough in TWAW rhetoric to start a thread like this would describe someone as ‘a gay’ 🙄

What take do you have, OP on the rights and safety of women and girls ?
Should they not have the right to be away from people with penises who claim to be women and therefore are able to share their space ?

There you go again with your homophobia… bless

Oh dear do you think we have female brains? Is that why GC don't understand TRA arguments?

I concur @KnitFastDieWarm

But hormones are basic biology. Male bodies produce male hormones, female bodies produce female one. People who undergo 'sex changes' don't start producing the opposite hormones, they suppress their own hormones and take cross sex hormone.

It isn't my theory. It was an argument widely used in the past.

Homosexuality was perceived as an illness by WHO well into 1970s. I guess they started "researching" it relatively late