Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

Not sure the OP has really thought this post through 😂
Puberty blockers as a "grey area" 🙄

I didn't. Every person I know is a gender realist, no one voted for Brexit. All Labour voters too. None religious, all pro women's and gay rights. None are "far-right".

Just how are puberty blockers a grey area?

I know of one person who openly voted for brexit she was 12 months away from retirement owned her own home lived with her husband civil service pensions etc etc I shouldn't imagine they are struggling much

Hiya. Thank you for engaging. Even if I don't like what you're saying, I do appreciate your input.

May I ask you some questions, please?

64
Brexit voter
still fucking Spartacus

Did this thread start off in AIBU and get moved to FWR?

Goodness, @Inauthentic, you have managed to be both misogynistic and ageist in your opening post.

Transgender people enjoy all the human rights that the rest of us do.

However, no-one can actually change sex so women need people observed to be male at birth stay out of female safe spaces and sports etc.

Trust me on this, I am very old and very wise, sage even.

Im late 30s. I think Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. I think people can wear what they want and use the name they choose.
You can't choose your pronouns, they are used about you.
Men (aka people born male) belong in male toilets/changing rooms/prison cells etc. And vice versa for women.

DC (19 and 17) largely agree. 17 year old thinks "genuine" trans people should be allowed in the facilities of their chosen sex. I've told him that's transphobic, and how can we tell between genuine trans people and men using it for their own gains. He's not sure.

My parents are in their 60s. My mum said "it's all so confusing. Why can't men just stay in men's places?" So she's GC then.

Dad thinks trans people are "fucking weirdos. You can't be something you aren't". So GC and rude!

My brother (mid 30s) thinks "if you've gone to the trouble of having your cock cut off and a fanny made, then you're a woman". So women are just holes then? Apparently men who haven't had that done aren't trans. Oh and he wouldn't sleep with a trans woman because he's not gay. So they aren't women?

I know people in their 80s who think we should just be kind. And those poor trans people who are so badly treated or something. I know others in that age gap who think it's all nonsense.

Oh, OK.

What’s your definition of ‘transphobic’?

Is it ‘anyone who doesn’t centre males in their feminism’ ?

"I don't see how someone can think that trans women for example should be afforded the right to use women's bathroom and changing facilities, but not to compete against women in sports? I mean they are either women or they are not."

I believe they have a genuine need and right (based on internal sense of self) to identify as a woman, to be called a woman, to wear female clothes without being ridiculed, to use women's bathroom

Competing against women in sports is a different matter due to potential physical advantages.

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)
Lovely. You approve of men in womens prisons, womens refuges and womens hospital wards but not in womens sport. You've got your priorities straight I see.

it seems to be (given the fit of the vapours when anyone deviates from the catechism) that Trans women REALLY, REALLY are women.

It is very confusing.

Millennial here (37) strongly gender critical

Millennial here, who is and will always be younger than Owen Jones. Used to be a full on TRA from 17 onwards. I grew out of it. So will the others.

I think you’ll find “terfs” wherever people use their brain and won’t be afraid to be sacked for voicing material reality.

Bit yeah, maybe it’s something they put in those pesky Wether’s Originals… addles the brain and we can’t as easily suspend disbelief like you cool young progressive superior handmaids people.

Internal sense of self my arse.

What a load of bollocks.

Thanks

With you: You can be gender critical AND still not be transphobic.
Transphobia: I hate trans peeps....
Gender critical: I don't agree with chemical castration of minors (which is what puberty blockers effectively do) and I don't agree with former men (I.E. trans women) participating alongside women /girls because of physical disparity. I don't believe men competing with women in sport, even if they have transitioned and they are now self-declared or actually transitioned trans women.

What do you mean by "identify as a woman"?

And what are "female clothes"?

Indeed, what is a woman?

My view: Adults can transition if it makes them happy to do so, provides they understand that they are transition to live "as if" they were the opposite sex in an attempt to alleviate psychological distress, and this does not mean they actually become the other sex. Nor does it mean that those around them are obligated to dissemble - though obviously this is polite and may well smooth the way and often may not be a problem to now use a different name etc. But if someone perceives them as their natal sex that this should not be considered a hate crime. (Obviously hurting/attacking/ killing someone for their trans status would be a hate crime.) I also think that if you have had a partner and/or kids you do need to think long and hard about your actions and how those you love will be impacted, and that you don't get an automatic right to women's spaces, and should probably use unisex, male or third spaces.

Children should be taught, like back in the day, that your sex is immutable but you can do all kinds of jobs and have all kinds of personalities within that sex. That everyone finds puberty unpleasant and awkward. Autistic teens especially need this message. Transitioning should be for adults only, but if you want to answer only to John and wear trousers all the time fine, but you are a girl doing this. (I think Pitt and Jolie got this right, with Shiloh actually. Went along with her chosen presentation without ever suggesting she was a he or trans).

I think this because I am old and wise and have been round the block and worked in schools for 35 years. And because I was once an awkward teen girl who thought she might be gay and turned out to not really be, but needed to experiment and explore for a few years before discovering who I am.

Hmm Dd and her mates (mid teens) are pro women only spaces.

Your mum is not confused about it...she's just humouring you, trying not to set you off. My MIL does this with my SIL and then rolls her eyes when she leaves the room.