Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

I think puberty blockers are grey areas because while I would not agree with anyone whose mind is not fully mature making radical decisions (like I wouldn’t let a young teen get a tattoo even) but in some very rare cases where a person is suicidal and a mental health professional decides on that course I believe it is beyond my area of expertise and I would have to trust the professionals. I simply do not know in that circumstance what the correct course is, I have not got the correct training or education to assess that!

In sports I think transwomen can have an unfair advantage due to their physical size etc but I say it is a grey area because I believe it’s equally not fair for them to compete in mens events when their hormone levels would put them at a disadvantage - maybe there should be a non gendered event everyone can enter alongside the women’s event? Again not an expert.

I think accusing people of being potential rapists or deviants because they were born into the wrong bodies is hateful and can have a horrendous effect on a person’s mental health. Do we think all men are potential rapists too? I can’t imagine the trauma of your brain and hormones telling you that you are one gender but your body being another and having to go through that as a teenager (being a teen is already difficult) only to find when you finally get into the right body that you are attacked, called names and accused of being a deviant. It is hateful. It is an angry mob that hates anyone different, anyone they can’t understand.

because they were born into the wrong bodies

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. We are our bodies.

Nobody is 'born in the wrong body'

“I think accusing people of being potential rapists or deviants because they were born into the wrong bodies is hateful and can have a horrendous effect on a person’s mental health. Do we think all men are potential rapists too?”

Do we think all men are potential rapists? In regards for safeguarding then, yes is the answer. Because that is why safeguarding makes no exceptions for lovely and kind males. It is all male people.

And no one was born in the wrong body. The perpetuation of this as a concept is significantly harmful. And not just to this group of people. What other group of people are born in the wrong body?

Not all men are rapists but all rapists are male. And they don't come with a flashing pre warning. The lack of understanding about basic safeguarding measures from some posters is frightening.

No teenage boy has female hormones. You've been fed a pack of lies, as per Hellofabores post above, and you need to start thinking more critically about this.

People dont care, in the main, whether men want to wear stereotypical female clothing (that most women dont wear anynore). That's not what its about. Its not about genuine dysphoria either, in all but the tiniest number of cases, and that is a mental illness and ahould be treated as such. Its about transgression, and male sexuality, and exerting male dominance over uppity women.

Some time ago I was at a local beauticians - I was there to get my eyebrows waxed and tinted ( along with an annual pedicure - my one reason to visit a salon). As I was sat in the waiting area I heard a conversation coming from inside one of the treatment rooms - between a woman and an older male, who I assumed was the father of the beautician, or perhaps a workman.Beauticians are not specifically designated single sex - though they tend to be overwhelmingly female spaces.

Anyway, the door of the treatment room soon opened and out walked a tall older man - in his late 50s - with a face full of make-up; a red, jaw level bob; a black, cropped sleeve T-Shirt; slim legged jeans ,and a pair of huge silver Birkenstocks. He was clearly going for the 'rock chick' look.

As I entered the treatment room, he sat himself down at another table, fingers splayed - ready for his manicure. As both my treatment and the small talk progressed I became very acutely aware of the intensity of his focus. He was intimately tuned into and clearly getting off on the 'chat' of the women's salon and the conversations that passed between women. He knew full well that he was an inter-loper in a female space and was coasting on the fact that not one woman had vocally registered this anomaly - and were carrying on as if everything was perfectly normal.

On this occasion no harm was done, yet the erotic motives were very evident.

Adults need to stop abusing children. In schools, in medical areas, in politics. Stop 🛑.

Sorry....what?

Well I’m an ‘older person’ and like all the other senior members of my family voted Remain! I have had a lifetime of being a woman and a mother, the disadvantages, the discrimination, the dispiriting experiences of banging your head against a brick wall, watching the slow development of women’s’ sport, employment rights, ability to apply for credit cards, mortgages and fertility rights without a male signature, having to endure sexist behaviour from my early teens from creepy, entitled and often frightening men. Why should I now be happy with those men deciding that if they feel like it they can declare themselves a woman, retain all their male privilege and entitlement, and invade female spaces women have created for themselves and dominate them. Maybe those younger generations have not yet understood what it’s really like being a woman? If someone feels they are trans, that’s fine, if they want to dress like Widow Twankey that’s fine, if they want to chop their bits off that’s fine, but that’s their own business, and it does not make them female in any sense

“I can’t imagine the trauma of your brain and hormones telling you that you are one gender but your body being another and having to go through that as a teenager (being a teen is already difficult) only to find when you finally get into the right body”

There are over 100 genders. Which is the ‘right body’ for each gender? Or. Are some people demanding the NHS provide body modifications to suit a philosophical belief held by the patient receiving those modifications. There is no biological science that this is anything but a belief.

And again what other groups should receive treatments based on this premise?

Yes if you're born with cerebral palsy or Downs syndrome or a brain tumor or in a slum have you also been born in the wrong body? How do you identify out of that?

Nobody is born in the 'wrong body'. People are born in their own body. Whether or not we like our body or might prefer it to be different is another matter.

We have single sex spaces in order to protect the dignity and privacy of the female sex ( primarily - but men have dignity too, of course) in situations in which the biological/physical body is of importance or highlighted.

Not all men are rapists or Peeping Toms, fetishists or voyeurs, of course, but some are. Even if a man is none of the above - he still has a 'male gaze' courtesy of the fact he is male- and women and girls have the right to protection and some privacy from this.

Do we think all men are potential rapists too?

No, but virtually all rapists are men. 99% of sex crimes are committed by males.

I can believe it. Autogynephilia. 🤢

You'll need to make your point more clearly in order for me to engage with it.

So many fallacies contained in the opening post as well. Im GC, middle aged and voted remain, as did all but 2 people that I know, of all ages. I know lots of Gen Z people, from 13-20 and they are universally scathing of trans identifying peers and enbies.

One source for the 99% stat; there are plenty more.

'The vast majority of respondents who had experienced rape or assault by penetration since they were 16 reported that the offender(s) were male (99%),'

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017&ved=2ahUKEwiFst7Z7bSFAxVqVEEAHZdgCQsQFnoECBQQAw&usg=AOvVaw283WoMBxQg2OVEvuUUHGVt

80% of violent offenders are male.

As a class, women are by an extraordinary measure more at risk from males than males are from females.

I would suggest you read clinicians accounts about the suicide you are now leveraging into your arguments. It has now been quite widely reported, internationally, that suicide is no higher a risk for children with trans identifies than the likely comorbidities that are likely to be underpinning their dysphoria.

This is a dangerous bit of misinformation that you are spreading whether it is intentional or not.

suicide rate is also reported as higher after adult treatment partly because of regret but brcause it hasn’t improved the patients live as they believed it world.

Please read widely, even with people you disagree with. And please don’t continue to spread misinformation .

I didnt realise nail salons were womens only spaces. You learn something new every day.
What else have I missed?
Florists?
Ballet studios?

Exactly. It’s been said time and again.

Do we lock our doors because everyone’s a burglar? No. Do we think everyone’s a burglar? No. But some people are. So we lock our doors.

Extreme trans ideology is a charter for male predators. If you open the door to some men, you open the door to ALL men.

Spot on again, Helleofabore

Even within the article, the author makes this point:

On the other hand, those of us who accept such differences must understand them accurately and describe them responsibly. As Fray poster Njuzu puts it, “Race is a very inexact and unreliable proxy for genetics.” Race is not a causal unit. There’s no such thing as having fast-twitch muscle fiber because you’re black. The causal unit is a gene, or a network of genes, or a network of genes and environmental factors. Being black only makes you more likely to have a genetic variant that makes you more likely to have extra fast-twitch fiber. That’s a lot of “likelies,” not certainties. And you can eliminate part of the uncertainty by testing for ACTN3, which takes you past the crudeness of race to the relative precision of genetics. I’m not exactly thrilled about a world in which kids’ futures are projected from being RR or XX. But it’s a hell of a lot better than a world in which they’re projected from being black or white.

Leaving aside the question of what race even is in this context, those differences are dwarfed by the differences between men and women.

And there are some sports in which Asian athletes excel due to genetics, and other sports when white or black athletes excel. Everyone has a chance. There are no sports in which being female is known to be an advantage except for rhythmic gymnastics.

I'm skinny rich person gender. Sadly, my body and my bank account disagree.

Why are people bringing Brexit into it. Completely irrelevant to the topic.

In sports I think transwomen can have an unfair advantage due to their physical size etc but I say it is a grey area because I believe it’s equally not fair for them to compete in mens events when their hormone levels would put them at a disadvantage - maybe there should be a non gendered event everyone can enter alongside the women’s event? Again not an expert.

Decisions have consequences. If deciding to make physical modifications to your body makes you uncompetitive in the male / open categories then tough. Elite women have to make these decisions too - how many delay pregnancy to ensure that they remain competitive during their peak years?

And whilst having specific categories for trans people could be a solution, they don’t want this. For ‘reasons’. World Swimming tried introducing a trans category and received zero entries.

And you also get the laughable situation where NB categories are having to be split into male NB and female NB for obvious reasons.