Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

I think more 5 or 6 than 56. I’ve had more interesting interactions with toddlers.

Then what does it mean?

So, have we actually had any poster define what rights people with trans identities seek that they don’t have?

And if these can be articulated in a way that is reasonably well understood, is there a reason no one will articulate them? Or is it that we won’t understand, so posters think why bother? Or is it that some posters cannot defend the rights that trans people seek so they won’t list them? Or that some posters think they know but don’t have the confidence to list them because they really don’t know but stating that they support trans people’s rights (as somehow different to everyone’s rights) makes them feel good so they won’t clarify?

Im asking you what trans rights you support.

I support trans people in having the same rights as everyone else. So employment rights, the right to education and health care (they actually can access more health care than non trans people in some cases). The right to single sex spaces.

But they aren't trans rights. They are just human rights.

It's really interesting that there was a simple question on this thread. Yet it brings out the gender critics every time.
You know there's so much more to get wound up about in the world. I'm a 56 year old woman & I think I've earnt the right to have views & beliefs of my own without having to debate & justify them.
The very fact that some are demanding that I unpack just says so much about how insecure & angry about trans people some are.
I might say yep I'm totally believing of animal rights, I would not be expected to explain what I mean. Yet you push & prod just for the chance for a row.
God grow up & focus on your own life instead of getting so obsessed with other people's.

This thread seems to be going around in circles and it seems that much of that seems to be about what rights trans people seek vs what they have.

MYOB

I have several degrees, have taught biology and sex education to thousands of pupils. I have spent months in different hospitals because one of my children has had serious surgery so I know far more about the brain than I ever would wish. I have a whole room full of biology books (several versions of Roberts) and medical books. Not one book in my house says men can be women and women can be men. Or that anything you can cut off or take or add on will change your sex.
You need to pick up a biology text book. GCSE level will do.
You then need to look at the Sex Matters website. And Transgender Trend. The Cass report is out on Wednesday - that is going to be heavy reading and quite heartbreaking I expect.
I am upset by about the way people are using this ideology to take away girls’ and women’s rights. And particularly medically vulnerable people’s rights. And vulnerable women in crisis centres. And even women prisoners.

That's good for you.
I'm simply not threatened by people who happen to be trans.
And I'm 56 which is the purpose of this thread.

I believe that trans people should have the rights and protections appropriate for their special characteristic or characteristics.

I believe women should have the rights and protections appropriate for their special characteristic or characteristics.

The two are not the same though, which inevitably means there will be areas of conflict.

In this situation, there's is a hierarchy of rights based on need not special characteristics.

This is, in order: a right to protection from harm (for all parties not just one), a right to protection of privacy and dignity (for all parties), a right to protection from discrimination. Saying that feelings must be protected via coercion is not ok - that's just another form of abuse. It has to be evidence based to have fairness.

The problem we are facing is that evidence is building that male pattern behaviour doesn't change even after hormones or surgery - it's still considerably more violent than female behaviour. Sex offending and fetishes are overwhelmingly male pattern behaviour and if anything transitioning is beginning to look like a red flag because there is evidence that transwomen are vastly over represented in the male sex offending population.

This doesn't mean I think all transpeople are perverts. This means there is evidence that there is a problem which puts women at risk of harm if we don't take these patterns seriously and reflect this which the use of lawful protections. At the same time we should act to give trans people appropriate protections from the likes of random attacks based purely on identity or vigilante attacks.

Unfortunately when people start talking about being seeing 'vaginas' in the changing rooms I lose all sense of the will to live because it's anatomical nonsense and basic biological illiteracy which doesn't help anyone. It's a failure - a deliberate one - to see sex and understand why sex based rights were even established or needed in the first place. These purposes and needs still exist and haven't changed. At best it's ignorance and at worst it's evangelical ideological activism to remove the biological rights of women. There isn't a third option.

We need to see sex to protect women.

Ahhh. But my own life is directly impacted and indirectly impacted by the conflict caused by prioritising gender over sex when sex matters and gender identity ideology . How nice for you that you can declare that your life is not.

Back when men retired at 65 and women at 60, the men really missed a trick by not self-identifying as women and demanding their pensions five years early.

Given that we can apparently just declare ourselves to be any old shite, can I add 40 years to my age and immediately start claiming my state pension including backdating it to when i would, apparently, have turned 68?

Can anyone, anyone at all, try and explain what rights trans people should have that they don't have already? Anyone?

No it just seems to be a bunch of people who recite TWAW and how they are mates with/are related to someone and how it doesn't bother then therefore no one else should be bothered in a statement of epic arrogance and lack of self awareness versus a bunch of people who understand evidence, biology, the law and how human rights work.

I suggest that you speak openly to trans people.
My adult child's life was saved by becoming trans & I am not exaggerating. So I know more about the flip side than most.

Trans people are one of the most targeted group. I am speaking of violent crime, you claim to be educated so surely you are aware of this

It rattles me that people perpetuate the myth that all trans people are out to use the same fucking toilet as women because they are not. Most people are just quietly getting on with their lives.

Trans people are one of the most targeted group. I am speaking of violent crime, you claim to be educated so surely you are aware of this

They aren't. I would ask you to provide evidence of this but something tells me this isn't going to happen.

Whilst I sympathise with the difficulties your trans child has experienced, I'm not sure that speaking to them would change the simple fact that women are people with rights and needs too. And sometimes what we need is single sex spaces.

Good for you. My rapist used to tell me it was a shame he couldn't volunteer to be a young leader at guides because then "were could be together more"
Or that it was a shame he wasn't allowed in the women's toilets so we could have a quickie.
Only these days he could just be gender Fluid and "be a woman" on the correct days.

And before you wilfully misunderstand me. NO. I am not saying transwomen are a danger (although we know some are. I'm saying that predatory males will pretend they are so they can access vulnerable women and girls.

As a rape victim my brain reads transwomen as male. And if I come across one in what I think is a female space my trauma responses kick in.

Can anyone, anyone at all, try and explain what rights trans people should have that they don't have already? Anyone?

Well, playing devil's advocate here... I suppose that TRAs would argue that in a country without self ID, trans people don't have the right to have access to the single-sex spaces which align with how they identify, whereas people who are not trans do have that right, because they 'identify as the sex they were assigned at birth'. But if you look at that from a non-TRA standpoint, we do have the same rights - we all have access to the appropriate spaces for our biological sex.

Most people know what is meant by animal rights though.

I'm genuinely asking what do people mean by trans rights? They have the same rights as everyone else. So if that's what you mean then yes, I support them too. If you mean the right to be in opposite sex spaces, then no. I don't.

Why do you assume that posters HAVEN'T spoken to transpeople?

As for the suicide thing. It's shameful as a claim.

There's evidence that transitioning can actually cause the opposite effect. There's some suggestion of a short term positive feeling but this is sometimes only short lived as reality kicks in about biology etc. There's no clinical evidence that on balance transitioning is beneficial.

That's the issue.

It's really interesting that there was a simple question on this thread. Yet it brings out the gender critics every time.

It's on the FWR Sex and Gender Board. Where women discuss gender identity ideology. So that's why.

So you're anti-women then, got it. In the same vein take your misogyny and sexism elsewhere.

This.

To be fair eresh, I found that statement pretty incoherent. I suspect that this is a poster that is reacting with their own deeply prejudiced view about what posters here discuss and why. I also doubt they are going to read anything anyone posts.