Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

I'm 60, justmake it into boomer territory... and have enough issues going on in my own life to not really care that much. So views are from my sideline as I have not really looked at what transphobic, gender critical etc actually mean on any deep level.

Puberty blockers seem just wrong.
People who have had male levels of testosterone from birth have an unfair advantage in women's sport.
Everybody seems to want to access women's spaces because they are nicer/safer/full of women.
Don't really like seeing anybodies bits in a changing room let alone a proliferation of penises.

Is that the collective noun for penises? A proliferation? Seems quite apt.

Its seem very backwards to see the men's game be massive and equally talented woman who could beat those men not be able to compete in the same game or fight because of DNA

I play football with a lady who played for a WFA Super League team through Uni and a couple of years after. She’s 25 years younger than I am. She’s fit, quick, has skill on the ball and isn’t afraid to get stuck in. She’s brilliant.

But she can’t put a fraction of the power into her shot that the men she’s playing against can and she gets easily barged off the ball (although none of us go in anywhere near as hard on her as the other men playing). If we played as aggressively as most male Sunday league games are, she’d be injured every week. None of the guys in the group have ever played above Sunday league level.

The majority of club-affiliated U15/U16 boys teams would beat the current England Women’s football team. The US team (when world champions) held a practice game against a U16 boys side and were beaten.

Serena Williams has acknowledged that she’d not win against male players of comparable rankings. And as for separating martial arts by weight alone?! Who are you kidding? There are some very tough female boxers, but they’re not going to hold their own against a good male fighter of the same weight division. It would be dangerous, and not a lot of ‘fun’ to watch either.

If you think transwomen shouldn’t compete in women’s sport because of some advantage they have (what is this advantage? Is it being male?🙄) then you’re just as much a bigot and transphobe as anyone else here, so get off your high horse, eh?

The worst defenders of TRA rhetoric are those who believe the same things but also believe they’re somehow nicer, kinder, better people. Well you’re not. You’re just like us.

I'm very sad you find me pathetic however while I get my vet that can you tell me how my views are prejudiced please?

> I believe trans people should be afforded the same basic human rights as a non trans person of the sex they were born,

> I believe sex and is real and binary but anyone can express themselves as any "gender" they wish while respecting sex based spaces and boundaries

> I believe a biological man competing as a girl or woman is sport is cheating as the advantages that person has are clearly evidenced

I'm genuinely keen to understand this.

Oh dear. And this post was supposed to show up the misogyny of the post it quoted. How remarkable is that?

Puberty blockers are a grey area?!

OP I do hope if you're doing serious tree see research you are looking deeper than believe/age as surely that's hugely limiting?

And to pick another pp comments ... younger generations may well believe themselves to be more inclusive but they only demonstrate this within their own believe system. In effect - "Be nice and do what I say and you can join in".

This - I have absolutely no desire to scupper the rights of transexuals to live safely and equally - they should be able to live, work, etc with the same expectations as any other human being (‘human rights’ should be universal).

I feel deep compassion for GD sufferers and worry for them when they reach the final resort of medically transitioning, especially as we come to understand the long term risks of both the surgical procedures and the impact of cross-sex hormones. They deserve the best psychological/psychiatric care at the earliest opportunity to reduce the risk of this being the only option for them.

It’s when the demands of ‘trans identifying’ individuals, male ones, encroach upon the rights, dignity add safety of women and girls that I push back. It’s when children are sold the ‘you can be born in the wrong body’ lie that normalises (and glamorises) GD that it becomes a hill I would die on.

And If that means I’m a GC/TERF, so be it.

With you: You can be gender critical AND still not be transphobic.
Transphobia: I hate trans peeps....
Gender critical: I don't agree with chemical castration of minors (which is what puberty blockers effectively do) and I don't agree with former men (I.E. trans women) participating alongside women /girls because of physical disparity. I don't believe men competing with women in sport, even if they have transitioned and they are now self-declared or actually transitioned trans women.

//

Me too.

Can those screeching transphobia please elaborate why this is so?

😂😂

Well you’d be incorrect. Every single human being can be correctly sexed from their biology.
Only people who have been raised as an opposite sexed person from birth due to anomalies in their visible genitalia might believe themselves to be the sex they were raised as. However, with the advances in medical science we have now, this is vanishingly rare. A male who might be unwittingly raised as female will realise once they fail to develop secondary sex characteristics at puberty, such as periods could then be genetically tested and it would be clear that they were in fact male.
DSDs certainly are very complex, but it is possible medically to completely accurately determine the sex of a person. And guess what - ‘feelings’ don’t come into it.

I am shocked I tell you at the misogyny that forms the foundation of that post. The lack of ability to recognise that misogyny is very clear.

I am an older woman of 46 and my interest in this topic is on safeguarding really rather than rights of any groups.

Thats not to say i dont want any rights! I am very concerned about talk to remove us from the ECHR.

So how should we define women? Give us a definition of woman that includes some men.

So are you admitting to being racist, anti Semitic and discriminating against disabled people? Let's face it admitting males into women's toilets, changing rooms and other single sex spaces disproportionately effects Muslim women (many of whom are women of colour) And Jewish women who can not be in spaces with males, and disabled woman who might need single sex care or be unable to use the convoluted incorrect language demanded from gender ideology?

Desdemonadryeyes
Internal sense of self my arse.

What a load of bollocks.

They used say that about homosexual people.

How a man can desire another man?
Biologically it doesnt make sense right?

Edited

//

Careful OP - is that a mask I see slipping?

Internal self of self is a load of arse. What does it even mean?

For a gay man to love another man impacts on no one else. No one has to change how they speak.

To fully validate someone's interenal self requires everyone to make concessions, many of them resulting in harm to others

I'm very sad you find me pathetic however while I get my vet

//

Sorry meant to say get over it

Men who grow up as men, have familes and children and careers as men and who suddenly go into mid life crisis mode, discover cissy porn, and start wearing their wives underwear to masturbate into are not women.

Girls who are horrified by the prevalence of male violence towards women, in life and in porn, and who are so terrified that they want to get away from being an adult human female, are not boys or men.

Women are humans born female that grow up to become adults.

That's it. Wearing a skirt doesn't magic you into being a woman, that's utterly ridiculous. Get real.

So porn has influenced your idea of what a body should look like.
You’re not ‘in the wrong body’ in as much as you don’t have the body you’d like. I’ve got huge breasts - I hate them and if I could afford it would have them reduced in size. I spend ages trying to find clothes that disguise them, I hate looking at photos of myself, I won’t let my DH see me naked anymore. But that doesn’t make me someone in the wrong body, or a man.

Have we found out why puberty blockers are a 'grey area' yet?

You're right, women are NOT human shields, but most of us are compassionate and would happily support those nonconforming men in a campaign for third spaces or for true equality with other men in male spaces.

Nope. It refers to a style of dress. I'm an older millennial. I love clothes and makeup, but like to get up as late as possible and wear comfortable, practical clothes to work, so day to day I daresay I look pretty frumpy most days. When I choose to make an effort, I look more conventionally attractive. Frumpy is not a fixed state and has nothing to do with physical attractiveness or age.

Women do not form our opinions based on how attractive we think men find us. The poster that said so was being appallingly misogynistic.

Is that the best "oh look a squirrel" that you've got?

What is remarkable is that on a feminist forum a poster claimed that women's attractiveness is based on their age, and that women's opinions are formed on the basis of how attractive they believe they are to men.