Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

Top work, but I have to put a gloss on one of your points:

The majority of club-affiliated U15/U16 boys teams would beat the current England Women’s football team. The US team (when world champions) held a practice game against a U16 boys side and were beaten.

Elite women's club and national sides increasingly have pre-season or mid-season friendly games against boys' teams to give the women a physical test beyond what they can experience from even the most physical women's teams. They start with U15 and yes, they lose. At first. The second or third time, they beat them because they are better and more experienced players. Then they move on to U16s. When they can beat them, U17s. Very occasionally, U18s are the final test. It stops there, obviously, because the football intelligence advantage of the women has been reduced and the male physical advantage has increased. And as you rightly say, it becomes too dangerous. So it's a training exercise, but it does also prove your point in spades.

So many questions here.

Do you accept other women's right not to accept those people as female, and not to want them in their rape crisis groups or their sporting competitions?

What is your view about people with XY chromosomes and a penis, who use their penis to rape women, but claim to identify as female? Are they female? Would you agree that committing an exclusively male crime is pretty compelling evidence against them having a female identity?

And if some people (i.e. rapists) can claim to have a female identity whilst clearly not actually having one, how can we be so sure that other people who claim to have a female identity (but are not rapists) genuinely do "feel female"?

If someone is biologically male and has spent every single second of their existence living in a male body, with no experience whatsoever of living in a female one, why do they believe that what they are feeling is what it feels like to be female? They have no frame of reference for being female. They do not know what it feels like to be female any more than I know what it feels like to be a monkey swinging through the trees by my tail.

A male person with dysphoria is not the same as a female person without dysphoria, so why are we supposed to consider that they are members of the same group? Based on what?

I don't think we need to strictly define women. It's just a label. The definition can be fluid. We can use more scientific language to talk about biology or chromosomes when needed, which is rarely.

I think you need to re-read what was posted, as you have entirely missed the point.

"It's just a label. The definition can be fluid".

Can you give me an example of another label from a different area that can be fluid? How are fluid labels useful, if they don't define anything concrete and specific? What is a label for?

Im 57 and strongly gender critical. My 23 year old daughter was very trans rights, until she saw how that played out in real life and a number of her female friends ended up very emotionally and sexually scarred by the experience. As individuals she knows many trans individuals and on the whole just lets them she/him/they but she is now almost more GC than I am, and her boyfriend and mainly wider friend group are of the same mind.
my son doesnt want to be involved. He has a couple of friends who now seem mainly to identify NB. It doesnt really affect him, but he does know, in reality, that they are boys or girls, but goes along to be polite

I assumed “not well-endowed” was a male talking about their penis - not a woman/breasts…

I don't think we need to strictly define women. It's just a label. The definition can be fluid.
How?? Women are adult human females. There’s nothing “ fluid” about that it’s just facts! What makes someone a woman is purely their biology. What else could it possibly be?

Thanks for openly sharing these views. It's really useful.

I'm a millennial born in the early 90s and I'm gender critical.

Oh I get it. Women who want to exclude trans women from facilities should unquestioningly have their views respected. But women who take a more inclusive view and are in favour of trans rights are pathetic little 'pick mes' (that's a misogynist term in itself) who haven't got to their 40s and formed their views through life experience, education, social interactions, reading and thinking, but are just having a knee jerk reaction to being butt hurt that men apparently no longer find them attractive. That was what the post said. Transphobic women should be taken seriously, but any women who are not gender critical are insecure bimbos who need to grow up. It's a funny kind of feminism where such a view is expressed and then endorsed by many others.

I'm straight. My partner is bisexual. I've actually had more same sex encounters than him. Go figure. The world is not simple and people don't fit into neat little boxes.

I think you need to reread my posts, Fox. You've imputed things in them that just aren't there, and got the rest of them completely arse backwards.

If it was my posts you meant, I assumed it was because you were talking about 'frumpy'.

Typo in your post. They are ‘men’.

Jesus Christ on a bike.

🙄

No. I think that some disgustingly misogynistic things have been written on this thread about women who are not gender critical, and now you are trying to gaslight myself and anyone else reading into believing that our feeble little brains simply didn't really understand you.

But alot of your postulations seem to be based upon some pretty Victorian attitudes, as if they were standard throughout all of history. This also was responsible for the 'women dont like sex' theory too - prior to the regency/Victorian period it was commonly accepted that it was women who had the voracious sexual appetites, and that they needed to be sexually satisfied by their men, or their wanton drives would make them seek out affairs.

Homosexuality was not always considered an illness. Indeed ancient Greece believed in the most general of terms, that women were for child breeding, and true love was only between men - hence all the amazing body beautiful male statues.

As with 'gender' which is the expression of masculinity and femininity - this has chopped and changed throughout time and place - there is no defining roles, dress, behaviour that is absolutely fixed for men and women, unlike sex, which has been what it has been since the 2 gamete process of reproduction evolved. Gender is totally a product of society.

Straight as a bottle of chips.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Fox. It's just that some of your posts don't make a lot of sense. But I do genuinely enjoy hearing different views, and appreciate your posts.

@ForCoralFox so I guess you're trying to imply that the labels "straight" and "bisexual" are examples of what I was asking for. But you seem to be interpreting "straight" to mean "has only had opposite sex sexual encounters" when its meaning is that someone is only attracted to the opposite sex. So, just a misunderstanding rather than a fluid label that is more helpful than a fixed label.

Do you mean older generations or older women? Because it's definitely a movement of older women.

The wisdom of the hags is all-seeing.

Well actually all those encounters happened when I was very drunk or on drugs, and I never enjoyed them. I have had sexual partners numbering in the triple figures, and can count my same sex partners on the fingers of one hand. A tiny proportion. My partner can count all his sexual partners on the fingers of one hand, and has had one same sex partner, so a much higher proportion. He is attracted to both sexes, whereas I'm only attracted to men.

You almost seem to get it....

I've addressed that in my post above.