KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

Sorry, I missed it. Busy thread. Thank you for this.

I think my issue is underpinning all the stuff around grooming gangs is one premise: Muslim grooming gangs are a bigger problem that grooming gangs as a whole. Its so embedded in our cultural consciousness now that people aren't questioning it. If one does question it, there is not the evidence for it. So that's one thing. And to me it's rooted in Islamophobia in the same way "women cry rape" is rooted in misogyny. There is no evidence for it, but its so widespread people just take it as "fact".

The second issue I have is, I think what JB was saying (and also the police at the time) was there was considerable concern that the story would fuel far right aggression. It wasn't long after the Oldham riots it came out. So we have a scenario where people claim it was covered up because "the police were scared to be racist", being repeated again as a "fact" where as the reality is not that at all.

Finally, I think that as I said, Tommy Robinson doesn't need an "opening" to be a racist. He is a racist. He will find the stereotypes and blow them out of proportion, to justify his racism. It is not true to think that "if only" the police had acted quicker he wouldn't be a racist. It is letting him off the hook. To me yet again its an example of society facilitating male violence.

KJKs video was not reflective of any of that but instead an uncritical parroting of far right narrative (i.e. a narrative created by the far right through genuine racism). She did it again in the kebab shop story. And what I was trying to get to was this point that the untrue premises (pakistani grooming gangs are a huge problem; police were scared to be called racist) are so embedded in our psyche that they are now invisible to most people.

GC campaigners have long experience of this (its sort of analogous to "born in the wrong body). So I am personally surprised that KJK repeats the narrative unquestioningly. I'm also surprised she hasn't looked into it more when she's been called on it (and her supporters too).

So this is why when people say "do you agree she's far right" I can't answer the question. She repeats their narratives. She takes money from organisations I personally find a bit too far right (CPAC are a bit like this:Thinking women should only be in the kitchen and shouldn't work and should only have drive to be primary carers, Anti-abortion legislation). And she doesnt appear to have thought it through.

But it might be like a lot of people she's just "blind" to it and accepting certain things as fact when they aren't.

CPAC aren't paying her rent in your head tho, you give her that for free.

Because you looooove her.

Stone. Cold. Legend.

I think you are confusing social conservatism with 'far right' Adam.

Women in the kitchen, anti-abortion and old-fashioned sexism are fairly mainstream and longstanding ideas, I'm sure many lefties/Labour Party members hold those views too.

I think they're wrong and outdated and oppressive ideas, but they're not 'far right'.

I'd like to understand why so many people are so devoted to her. To the point they shout abuse and attack people for asking questions about her. It really intrigues me.

I'm really interested in human behaviour, cultures, how societies operate, politics etc so the vibe around her is fascinating. From the outside, almost cult like or religious in the unquestioning adoration.

I guess it's even more interesting having been on the boards so long, remembering the poster that was here, remembering how others used to behave and seeing the difference. I'm interested why and how that happens.

Noone is making anyone else comment. I find it very interesting so many people joined the thread to tell me I shouldn't have started the thread because there is nothing to say. If I open a thread where I have nothing to say, I don't say anything.

Makes me think people don't want a thread about it. I'm interested why that is.

I was quoting what the PP had put in their own list.

"Far right" is quite an interesting concept as it's not clear cut what it is. PP said that was far right, you say "social conservatism".

Again, this is why it's impossible to answer the question "Is KJK far right, or linked to the far right?" Because there is no one right answer. All you can really say is "here are the reasons I would assess she could be".

I'd like to understand why so many people are so devoted to her.

Oh dear.

I'd like to understand why so many people make up shit about her.

So here we are.

'Shout abuse and attack'? You mean disagree with and disprove incorrect assertions?

I've seen no shouting or attacking on these threads.

I'll repeat my point against about poor Chantelle Downes: KJK repeated the reporting in the MSM as to the allegations made by the CPS' own prosecution team at trial. Why is KJK repeating a legally trained expert's opinion, widely reported, a problem?

Also, you seem to be trying very hard to say that grooming gangs aren't a problem. Why are you pushing that narrative? It's blatantly wrong: https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/charlene-downes-murder-investigation-uncovered-16324763?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

I mean, it's pretty clear at this point that they don't. You just don't agree. Like so many of these supposedly "logical, factual" threads.

I mean, it's pretty clear at this point that they don't. You just don't agree. Like so many of these supposedly "logical, factual" threads.

From me to KJK

Bollocks. There have been all manner of, at best, half truths spouted as fact in these threads.

There continue to be misrepresentations about what she's said (as if she's not picked it up from the MSM and is somehow responsible for it having been reported in the first place).

One of the reasons I’m here, commenting again despite knowing better, is that I don’t want the last word on this thread or any other to be
“KJK is giving us a terrible name with her awful inability to stay clean of the far right mud I throw, and all you fangirls just can’t see it because you’re such awfully dim fangirls.”

That’s all I’m hearing from you, to be honest, and it’s untrue on so many levels. Not least, I’m not a KJK fangirl.

I wonder whether you are hearing a lot of conversations among your more local official feminist friends which is very much ‘and they all seem to love that awful KJK who says terrible things like -that’s a man!- and is just embarrassing’.
If that’s the case, then it’s very much something happening where you are. She’s not a big conversation topic here, though some of her aphorisms are as they are so perfectly judged.

I see conversation here about the appalling reaction from men and other TRAs when she organised an event. I hear a lot about the events and their speakers. I don’t hear much about her at all. Maybe I don’t notice it, with me not being a fangirl and all.

Haha! Just realised the video has Spanish subtitles! Obviously my devotion ascends all languages!

Again, this is why it's impossible to answer the question "Is KJK far right, or linked to the far right?" Because there is no one right answer. All you can really say is "here are the reasons I would assess she could be".

😂

I’m sorry, what?

Because, according to you, it’s impossible to say for sure (without reading her mind) whether KJK is a far right agent or not, one can only say “Here are the reasons I would assess she could be”.

How come none of us can say “Here are the reasons I would assess she couldn’t be”.

I mean listen to yourself, honestly. Why can we only surmise “yes” and not “no”?

KJK goes all over the country at considerable risk to her safety and sometimes her own life, paying for security at her events because the police won't help, handing a microphone to women everywhere who have suffered at the hands of the biggest men's rights movement in decades.

And people like Adam are desperate to stop it.

I guess it's even more interesting having been on the boards so long, remembering the poster that was here, remembering how others used to behave and seeing the difference. I'm interested why and how that happens.

Reading between the lines, Adam thinks we're the wrong kind of feminists. Not as good as those who went before!

I thought I read a post saying she couldn't be involved with the far right because she was a labour voter

She says it herself in this interview, starting at about 8 mins in.
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/01/24/podcast-posie-parker-standing-for-women/

She was horrified at the Tories winning the GE in 2015 and joined a group called something like 'amazing lefty women' which turned out to have a large contingent of male crossdressers in it.

I'd like to understand why so many people are so devoted to her. To the point they shout abuse and attack people for asking questions about her. It really intrigues me.

Because she is one of the very few people who are willing to say a man cannot be a woman and children cannot be trans.

That's why some like her and why some are trying to discredit her.

I'd rather you be honest and say why you are trying to discredit her.

I'm guessing you think she is going too far and will damage 'the cause'. But i don't think 'the cause', for you, is women's rights and child safeguarding. I think its respectable feminism or the labour party.

I don't think every women speaking up about TRA are doing it in the best way possible. I think some who are willing to call some men she are confusing the message; some who want transition to be after 18 are nodding along to the idea that it is possible for a man to be a woman; some concentrate too much on saftey and forget that women should be able to organise without men and their permission for any reason we want, and talking only about saftey risks that.

But i can disagree without personally attacking them. I dont care if they are best buds with someone i dont like, or have said other things i dont like, its irrelevant.

And im willing to concede that they might be going about it in a way that will get to my aims eventually.

Now, what is it about saying 'men can never be women' leads to your aims not being met?

If one makes a youtube video where one strings together some unconnected events to build a narrative about organised child abuse, yes one is responsible for building that narrative.

That is literally what she does in the video upthread.

It's actually pretty demeaning to her to suggest she has no agency or awareness of that

Reading these endless posts about KJK, it strikes me that Adam's fascination with KJK, seems to have a lot in common with India Willoughby's fascination with JKR.

Obviously has nothing better to do.

Bit like all the posters queuing up to tell me how weird it is that I'm obsessed with her to be honest.

If you aren't interested, why comment?

I'll comment where I like. HtH.