KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

And yes it is islamophobic to call Muslims groomers when there is no evidence they are no more likely to be involved than any other ethnicity.

Even when those particular Muslims are groomers?

The only person ever saying "more likely" here is you. We're not saying it. KJK didn't say it. You're arguing with voices in your head.

I guess you think we're thinking it? I'm not.

There's no particular problem from Muslims themselves, the particular problem is people like you, listening to the voices in your head rather than what people are actually saying, because of some weird hang-up about Muslims.

Thus impeding the normal handling of the subset of cases involving Muslims.

Thus encouraging unhappiness from people who observe the poor handling of cases involving Muslims.

And you then claim any anger with the authorities' and your own actions is being motivated by racism, thus deflecting it away from yourself.

Very interesting how people's own world views shapes how they read articles.

The Rochdale rapists and traffickers were all of Pakistani or Afghan heritage, the victims white teenage girls, a pattern seen in many high-profile cases. Far-right groups have seized on this to portray gang-based CSE as a “Muslim” phenomenon created by mass immigration

The exploitation of these cases by the far right has made many liberals fearful of addressing the issue.

Not about being perceived as racist. About inflating racial tensions and sparking things like the Oldham riots, caused by the far right being racist.

But your brain hasn't seen that at all and instead has focussed on the ethnicity piece.

Here are KJK words, from OldCrones post on the previous thread:

I've found some more quotes from that interview here:
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie

The reason why [Tommy Robinson]….is of any note….—and I am assured by women on the ground...where grooming gangs existed….there were women fighting it, right. However, it didn’t make it to the mainstream media until massive, great big ruptures. And so, what that did—and there was a culture of “Let’s not be racist”... and also “These girls are losers” and “they probably want to be prostitutes at 15”—all of those things tied in together left a gaping hole for someone to come in and say, “Well, 90% of all the men that….we’ve arrested for grooming are Pakistani or Muslim or Somali...They’re all Muslims, so let’s talk about Muslim grooming gangs”...If you can’t talk about these things, you leave them open for people with ill motives to talk about them and make it their cause. And that is exactly what happened. So, I’ve just continued to...say... it’s the fault of the left. If the police force had dealt with those grooming gangs..., there would be no room for anyone to capitalise that void.

You said there’s no evidence of Muslim grooming gangs.

When people said there was, you changed tack and started saying there’s no evidence that says Muslims are more likely to be abusers, and now, that the whole thing is a gift to the far right.

Ugh,and I didn't click on the substance link before. I did now and read this:

It must be said that, whilst women are never responsible for the actions of violent men, they are wholly responsible for the lies, distortions and mischaracterisations they have broadcast on all frequencies. Is it any wonder that the gender activists and media have received these signals?

Yuck. Blaming women for male violence. Nice.

Thank you Adam for reposting KJK's words on this subject. She expresses the point perfectly.

Are you saying the large groups of Pakistani Muslim men who groomed and gang-raped white girls specifically weren't in grooming gangs? 🤔

"Muslim" isn't an ethnicity.

I didn't say that. That's how you interpreted my words.

Cognitive dissonance is getting you. Obviously there are majority Muslim men grooming gangs. But the "muslim" bit is a red herring. And also the bit the far right like to focus on.

Seriously. I'm not going to bother. Read the posts. What I wrote is what I mean.

Nope, no idea. I got deleted too, who knows what for. Will be more careful.

Was a second thread really necessary?

Why are you so obsessed Adam? It's weird.

Are you from the Upside Down? You seem to read everything in Opposite form to how it is written.

Hence why we’re all responding in baffled amusement.

You keep claiming anyone who calls out Muslim grooming gangs is racist and "far-right". Does that include the victims, the solicitors/barristers and the police too? Why is fine to call white men paedos when they are paedos but when men of a specific religion are paedos it's Islamophobic to call them paedos?

It was necessary because the last thread ran out before I was finished. I was finding it interesting and assumed it was going quickly because people had things to say. I don't know, now it's almost like the 10 pages of hot air were designed to get the thread closed ASAP. Almost like people don't want to critique why someone could conceivably perceive KJK as right wing.

If the daily mail had an article about "White grooming gangs" and the prime minister was making a big deal about recording ethnicities to be sure white men weren't possibly getting away with being abusers, with no evidence white men were more likely to be groomers than anyone else I'd have plenty to say on the matter.

It's been done to death so many times. Unless you have some special or superior insight that will shine a never before seen light on KJK isn't it all a bit flogging a dead horse?

All your arguments so far are the same old same old. What's left to say?

You don't like her, so what, she doesn't care.

You don't think saying "women are wholly responsible for the lies, distortions and mischaracterisations they have broadcast on all frequencies" is misogyny? Interesting. Seems pretty clear cut to me. The trope of women as liars and responsible for violence from men is pretty well known.

Is Nazir Afzal Far Right?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/31/muslim-community-street-grooming-nazir-afzal

And to return to the premise of the previous thread, without Overton Window pushing women like Sheila J, Julia L, the Object! women, and KJK, it's highly unlikely the CAN-SG event would ever have happened. They even used the same title as KJK's HoL event and report.

Very interesting how people's own world views shapes how they read articles.

It is, isn't it? Instead of quoting my whole posts, with all the parts of the articles which I quoted, you selectively picked out a couple of sentences which suited your world view.

Also in the Guardian article:
A 2022 report into CSE failures in Telford suggested that “nervousness about race” may have “led to a reluctance to act”.

This is from the Telford inquiry:
the Inquiry heard that teachers with management responsibility had sought to raise the issue of child exploitation with Council officers, telling the Council that there is a “problem in this authority with Pakistani youths” – only to be accused of being racist by a Council officer.

individuals...told the Inquiry that they believed WMP failed to take the proper action in some investigations, in order to avoid being labelled racist

https://www.iitcse.com/

And in the Independent article:
The fight against grooming gangs is still being hampered by authorities’ fears that they could be called racist for documenting abusers’ ethnicity, an official has said.

Official reports into abuse by grooming gangs have identified racism fears as an issue for almost a decade, but Mr O’Brien said cases seen for IICSA’s latest report were “very recent indeed”.

But of course those quotes don't suit your world view that nobody has been put off investigating these crimes out of a fear of being branded a racist.

?

@AdamRyan clearly you have absolutely no experience with actual Muslim grooming gangs.

What's that like? To be able to form opinions on something you've absolutely no experience of, and then to tell people who call you out (some with real life experience) "racist and far-right"?

Yeah I agree with this.
Part of what I find so fascinating is how much credit KJK gets when from what I remember Venice Allen and Julia Long started a lot of the "free speech" stuff. As I recall it really started with the speakers corner punch up and I don't remember KJK being there.

Not seen VA or JL mentioned on here in yonks, don't know why. It's all about KJK.

It would be helpful if you could indicate which of these random sentences are yours and which are quotes from other posters. Otherwise it’s difficult to make sense of what your trying to say.

(Still in the middle of dinner so this isn't an exhaustive list, but whilst I'm waiting for my timers to finish~)

What things do you mean? What things do you think are called far right but aren't really? What things are actually far right to you

The most obvious would be disagreeing that TWaW.
-Equality of opportunity over equality of outcome.
-Disagreeing with "no debate" culture.
-Elon Musk, Jeremy Clarkson, Jordan Peterson - all called "Far right" but I wouldn't say are.
-Thinking that there's a "woke" narrative being pushed in most main stream media.
-Thinking migration needs to be more controlled (No one has any issue with Japan or Autralia's views on migration for example, just seemingly the US and UK)
-Following on from that, Brexit. If Brexit is "far right" then we're having to accept that over 50% of the UK population is "far right" which I find a ludicrous thing to say.

Things that are actually far right?
-Authoritarianism
-Genuine cases of racism, homophobia, transphobia
-Thinking women should only be in the kitchen and shouldn't work and should only have drive to be primary carers. (Andrew Tate Esque Figures)
-Anti-abortion legislation
-Neo Nazis
-Eugenics

This is exactly what I mean. You start from a position that "muslim grooming gangs" are a problem. There is no evidence of that, it's insidious racism that's seeped into public consciousness and is being played on by the far right. It is now so embedded in certain sectors people don't even recognise it for the kind of rhetoric it is.

I was not starting from that position at all? I was referencing what was previously referenced by you and others in the last thread in relation to JB and KJK???
I specifically said WE on the left ignoring that specific grooming gang for fear of being accused of racism and then not taking accountability for having done so opened those gangs up for being used as talking points by actual right wing figures.
Please don't intentionally misrepresent what I'm saying.

To quote OldCrone from the previous thread;
"So if someone doesn't put an explicit "and I don't think that's good" after a statement, you read it as support?

I think that must be it.

Julie Bindel said:
As a feminist who has always gone after the men who abuse women and girls, whichever social class or ethnic group they belong to, I was concerned that the story would only be told by racists. The British National Party (BNP) had been already been claiming that nasty Muslim “paedophiles” were preying on innocent white girls.

KJK said:
all of those things tied in together left a gaping hole for someone to come in and say, “Well, 90% of all the men that….we’ve arrested for grooming are Pakistani or Muslim or Somali...They’re all Muslims, so let’s talk about Muslim grooming gangs”...If you can’t talk about these things, you leave them open for people with ill motives to talk about them and make it their cause.

They're saying very much the same thing here, but Julie Bindel made it quite clear that she doesn't agree with the BNP by saying 'I was concerned..."

It should also be clear that KJK doesn't agree with the racists, by calling them "people with ill motives".

But it seems that this wasn't explicit enough for people like Adam. Or maybe Adam thinks Julie Bindel is also 'far right'"