KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

I've never been anywhere near Kiwifarms, so I have no clue of its general content. You must've been on it to know though?

Lovely little dig on the end of your post. Passive aggressive. 😁

“We are so close about so many things. Slight differences of emphasis don’t make anyone a pariah.”
In my experience that’s exactly what kjk does- she attacks everyone who has a slight difference of opinion with her and makes them a pariah. Not on here, of course, but on Twitter. The can-sg attack is the most recent example but she does it regularly

So, why join in with that? Why not see it as a KJK flaw- no one on here has said she is flawless or always right- and move on?

I’ve said many times on here, I don’t entirely like her style and would struggle with her at a dinner party 🤣 but she has achieved some real stand out successes. I admire what she does well, and wince slightly where I disagree.

To be honest, half the time when I wince, it’s my girly socialisation that’s shrieking ‘be kind’ at me.

The other half, I don’t agree with the content or the way it’s expressed but allow people to have a range of views which won’t all coincide with mine.

Looks like my decision to not waste any more of my life being involved in threads like these, was the right one.

I hear you @TinselAngel

I've not been on the thread much, but noted the twisting.

I get pissed off very quickly with people who do this.

This

well said pickled

It was, it was amazing, I was working in London in 2017-20 so got to go to lots of stuff, both WNTT and WPUK. I met lots of Mumsnetters at these events and we have stayed in touch off of Mumsnet. Then there was "Let A Woman Speak" which held a few events around the country and the first Standing for Women events where KJK and Venice teamed up.

Mumsnet has been extremely influential in the "gender critical feminist" (or whatever we want to call it) resistance movement.

this would be a different thread if certain posters used the word ‘some’

not everyone on here thinks the same way as much as it suits some posters to pretend they do

(it would be a different thread…not necessarily a better one as this one seems to be a shit show. I don’t think it was a good idea to start and engage with a second thread and i really hope no one starts a third one)

If anyone does, I've got a feeling I know who it will be, @RufustheFactualReindeer

I don't dislike KJK, I agree with what I believe her motive to be overall - protecting women and children

I dislike people who become hailed as heroes like they dare to speak out about something... that just regurgitates a particular view that my own life feels is just a convenient lie they've bought from reading a few articles online... that grooming was ever an imported problem to this country and disregarding that the whole culture of times past contributed. I tried to give names back in 2012 to police... it's not exaggerating to say they really had no interest in names of white men operating in the era they appealed for information over in my childhood area. The hot potato was Muslim gangs and unless you contributed to that narrative...🤷‍♀️ you still have nothing to say they seem to want to acknowledge and hear and generations upon generations are still dismissed with now "we were scared of racism" ... so what about before that? What were you scared of?? Nothing, just blamed kids... and accepted shit happened! and now blaming other cultures for importing something that already existed and was easy here and "learning lessons" apparently

They are absolutely a real thing, but they just aren't a new problem for the country to tackle more than other male predators, or the way some kids were just considered fair game for sexual abuse. We didn't even have a law robust enough to tackle the problem till 2003 really - we had loopholes that were absolutely used hence young people could tell the police they were ok and the police would leave them with men clearly having sex with them, not remove them or sometimes just arrest kids and not the men using kids!

On how important language is I'm behind KJK all the way

I don't like how we can't criticise her though for what are imo valid points- like she is a public figure now, so she's fair game to critique, and feels rather culty to offend people by saying you disagree with anything she says... which is ironic considering how culty another trend she's usually speaking about, is... like detransitioners get shunned from a certain community, but you can't really hold a different opinion on something without people seeming upset you do (only on MN do I experience this tbf)

I don't like how we can't criticise her though for what are imo valid points

you can absolutely criticise her

and others can absolutely disagree

Well said.

This thread is full of criticism and the last one…

if someone reacts to your criticism in a way you don’t like ignore them

or the way some kids were just considered fair game for sexual abuse. We didn't even have a law robust enough to tackle the problem till 2003 really - we had loopholes that were absolutely used hence young people could tell the police they were ok and the police would leave them with men clearly having sex with them, not remove them or sometimes just arrest kids and not the men using kids!

completely agree, its shocking

I've obviously butted into a convo that has been going a while

But I honestly thought the PMing and font thing was a reaction to a view that wasn't wanted to be heard and assumed it wasn't completely genuine

Might be wrong

It's my past experiences on MN that gave me that impression when you criticise certain folk for certain things

Admittedly I haven't really used MN as much as I used to recently so apologies if I made 2+2 = 5 over an in joke or thing I don't know about

I'm referring to the fact that posters on many threads make reference to "the other place" (I'm xyz in "the other place"), constant "in jokes" about cheese/cakes, plus certain posters constantly bringing up "I know them in real life/I am in touch with them" as a gotcha.

I have said before I find the board cliquey and I think it puts "outsiders" off and has contributed to it becoming an echo chamber. I was asked for evidence then. This thread is now my evidence.

I hear what you are saying and what other posters are saying. But from my perspective it's almost impossible to move forwards when the conversation is endless people asking me for evidence, criticising what I post, then telling me I'm "bad faith" for disagreeing, then asking for the same again. Telling me I post too much, then telling me I'm ignoring them etc etc.

Interestingly last night I read another thread from "similar threads" below (the "what if you are all wrong" one) and the OP on that had almost exactly the same criticisms and messages thrown at her. Made me feel better as I could completely understand her points yet posters were doing the whole "disingenous/bad faith/misrepresenting" to her too.

It's a pattern. And I can only conclude it's a pattern because the regular posters on here aren't interested in a discussion. Which makes me sad.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I hate bullies. If people are going to fill this thread up with allegations of me twisting things, repeated comments that "I'm obsessed" etc then damn right I'll start another. I will not be bullied into shutting up because you don't like what I'm saying.

If you don't want to discuss it, scroll past the thread. If you want to engage with the content with an open mind, in a respectful way please do.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I hate bullies.

crikey, the irony.

Thank you for your posts. You've done a much better job than I have of explaining the problem with the muslim "grooming gang" narrative.

I think because of my past and because of the absolute shit show that this government has made out of dealing with sexual violence, I get really angry when people start focusing on particular groups (Muslims) and building a narrative that suggests we could deal more effectively with child abuse if we weren't "scared of racism". It's just untrue. It's a populist narrative, designed to deflect from the fact that actually in the UK, right now, (to coin a KJK phrase) men can rape with impunity.

@AdamRyan

It's a pattern. And I can only conclude it's a pattern because the regular posters on here aren't interested in a discussion. Which makes me sad.

It's absolutely a pattern. It mars what could be a great board. As a newbie attempting to engage in discussion, it's almost impossible. The attacks on me were so vicious and personal I had to change my username. Now, I'm not an enemy by any means; I don't have any radical opinions. I just don't have exactly the same views as most posters on this board.

Quite! Sometimes I am really tempted to out myself completely. People would be like, "eh? This is a totes boring, middle of the road working menopausal mum?"

But because its on line it gets into a projection of "you hate her, you want to stop women speaking" etc

The power of mumsnet was that it was a place where all kinds of women could discuss stuff and think about ideas we couldn't discuss elsewhere. Admittedly we weren't nice to MRAs

Not possible any more. Asking questions is "disingenuous". Summarising your understanding is "misrepresenting". And posting other views means you must be affiliated with the Bad Feminists (whoever they are).

Adam, when you say "If you want to engage with the content with an open mind, in a respectful way please do.", do you ever read back your repeated slurs and attacks on women on here and think "oops"?

I've tried to be pleasant to you on various threads and you repaid that by saying something extremely offensive to me. I'm a real person and I'm not going to be friendly to people who think I do what you accused me of.

On this thread you've gone to the level of "she's more popular than you" as if we are Heathers 😂

I'm not entirely sure who you think I'm bullying, but thanks for plopping that opinion down.

My issue here is everyone here appears to believe she isn't trending conservative when her messaging and support shows that she is.

Nobody has talked about her 'trending conservative'. She has been accused of being 'far right' and supporting Tommy Robinson. This is not 'trending conservative', which would be a perfectly respectable political position to hold, and one shared by many people in the UK. We even have a Conservative government.

There is no evidence that she is 'far right'. That's the accusation that people here don't accept.