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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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11
crockofshite · 18/03/2024 13:08

was it a woman with a penis ? or a woman with a cervix ?

Chersfrozenface · 18/03/2024 13:10

ChateauMargaux · 18/03/2024 12:59

@NefertitiV .. 98% of murders are male..https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender. 2% is rare.

I couldn't find any statistics only comparative studies of how males and females are reported differently by the press but I believe murders perpetraed by women receive a disproportionate amount of media coverage.

It illustrates the journalistic aphorism that an unusual, infrequent event (such as a man biting a dog) is more likely to be reported as news than a similar but far more common event, such as a dog biting a man.

WallaceinAnderland · 18/03/2024 13:14

It's such a blatant lie about such a basic fact.

The whole TWAW is a blatant lie but if society is going along with it then of course we have to check.

Gloriosaford · 18/03/2024 13:18

Gettingonmygoat · 18/03/2024 11:12

No doubt it's a bloke. The media need to stop lying.

👏🏻

AlisonDonut · 18/03/2024 13:23

Westfacing · 18/03/2024 12:01

Isn't it annoying that when we read of an alleged crime of violence and a women is said to be the perpetrator, we have to wait a day or say to know if in fact it's a woman after all.

These people have spent years only referring to women when they mean men, and referring to women as 'cervix havers' or 'uterus owners' so who knows anything any more?

Boiledbeetle · 18/03/2024 13:31

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2024 12:49

Scarlet Blake identified as a cat. Strangely this was not reported.

But I shall only identify as a cat, thereby giving them no alternative gender. Blake must have identified as a woman first.

WiltingAtTreadmills · 18/03/2024 13:53

Chersfrozenface · 18/03/2024 13:10

It illustrates the journalistic aphorism that an unusual, infrequent event (such as a man biting a dog) is more likely to be reported as news than a similar but far more common event, such as a dog biting a man.

Yes, and then when you've read in detail about 2 or 3 cases of an infrequent event like a woman killing a man, you 'know' those cases a lot more and they are more significant to you than occasionally hearing the statistic of '2 women are killed by men every week', for example - so you begin to think they are more equal numbers.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 18/03/2024 13:57

Boiledbeetle · 18/03/2024 13:31

But I shall only identify as a cat, thereby giving them no alternative gender. Blake must have identified as a woman first.

I like that idea. I would never consider identifying as a beetle or a pixie though as they might stomp on me with their very big boots and saying a cheery "move along now, nothing to see here" 😳

ChateauMargaux · 18/03/2024 14:05

@Chersfrozenface . Exactly andbwe are led to believe that murders by women are commonplace because we read about a higher percentage of them than male murders.

Even on this thread, the number of posts stating that women are murderers, including the example that was subsequently found to be false, leads us to the false impression that murders by women are more commonplace than they are. Add in the number of male crimes reported as fenale and it changes our perception of what is an anomoly.

Does it matter?? Yes!! If public opinion holds that women commit violent crimes in similar patterns to men, then the public will not support measures to protect women from men and to keep prisons segregated.

TathingScinsel · 18/03/2024 18:13

The men have been named by police, father and son.

The nephew has made a few comments on public social media posts, I’ve scrubbed his name out on the screenshot because the police press release asks for privacy from
the family.

The nephew’s comment seems to suggest this is potentially more like the Ilford case (woman arrested just because she was on scene) than it is a Scarlet Blake style situation (male perp described as a woman).

Condolences to the family of the deceased, I hope they are being well looked after by police support services and get swift answers 💐

Woman arrested after two men found dead
Woman arrested after two men found dead
Woman arrested after two men found dead
PurpleSparkledPixie · 18/03/2024 18:32

So a sister or a girlfriend. And they are still doing patrols in the area. Thanks for the update.

IWantTheOneICantHave · 18/03/2024 18:37

Chersfrozenface · 18/03/2024 12:46

I wouldn't have thought Halifax was that diverse, yet we had "Zara Jade", a transwoman imprisoned (in a mens' jail) for assaulting ZJ's partner, also a transwoman - you can ignore all the 'she's' and 'her's' in the news stories.

Have you been to Hartlepool? It's no comparison to Halifax

TathingScinsel · 18/03/2024 18:41

PurpleSparkledPixie · 18/03/2024 18:32

So a sister or a girlfriend. And they are still doing patrols in the area. Thanks for the update.

Hesitant to speculate but various family posts publicly visible on FB express sadness at the loss of only the younger of the two men, which may or may not be relevant to the police investigation.

Chersfrozenface · 18/03/2024 18:47

IWantTheOneICantHave · 18/03/2024 18:37

Have you been to Hartlepool? It's no comparison to Halifax

There was Samantha Howard, a transwoman jailed in 2020 for offences including attacks in emergency services personnel - home address Church Street, Hartlepool.

And apparently there's a transman comic book writer from the town.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 19:23

ChateauMargaux · 18/03/2024 12:59

@NefertitiV .. 98% of murders are male..https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender. 2% is rare.

I couldn't find any statistics only comparative studies of how males and females are reported differently by the press but I believe murders perpetraed by women receive a disproportionate amount of media coverage.

8% of people convicted of homicide in the UK are female - source (see Section 8). So still much less common than men, obviously, but perhaps not quite as rare as some posters may think.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Analyses of information held within the Home Office Homicide Index, which contains detailed record-level information about each homicide recorded by police in England and Wales.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023

Chersfrozenface · 18/03/2024 19:29

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 19:23

8% of people convicted of homicide in the UK are female - source (see Section 8). So still much less common than men, obviously, but perhaps not quite as rare as some posters may think.

They are recorded as female. Since people are now arrested, charged and convicted as the gender in which the identify, they are not necessarily in fact biologically female.

See Scarlet Blake, for instance.

Josette77 · 18/03/2024 19:31

OnlyLoveCanBreakYourHeart · 18/03/2024 12:27

I've asked MN to withdraw my post if that's the case. I was at the event and thought otherwise.

She's a beautiful woman.

Not every woman is super feminine looking.

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 19:39

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 19:23

8% of people convicted of homicide in the UK are female - source (see Section 8). So still much less common than men, obviously, but perhaps not quite as rare as some posters may think.

We can no longer trust this data. Men convicted of murder are recorded as being female so who knows what the actual percentage is.

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 19:41

https://kpss.substack.com/p/how-police-forces-in-the-uk-record

Offending patterns differ significantly between males and females, with males committing the large majority of offences. Some offence categories are only very rarely committed by females. This means that the allocation of even one or two cases of male offending to the female subgroup can have a significant impact on those data, compromising both its reliability, and its utility and relevance to service development.

How Police Forces in the UK Record Suspects’ Sex: 2023 Update

Nationally, forces are still refusing to record sex registered at birth

https://kpss.substack.com/p/how-police-forces-in-the-uk-record

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 19:50

TathingScinsel · 18/03/2024 10:02

Women do murder but female pattern violence and male pattern violence are generally pretty different.

Some women were prolific murderers back in the day when lethal poisons were readily available, husbands, lodgers, neighbours, little bit of cyanide in the apple pie, wait for the outcome… but science and substance control laws made that impossible (a good thing!).

Women who kill are almost all either accomplices to male muderers, hit man hirers or Angel of Death types and sadly, victims of women tend to be their own family members, often children.
Two adult males at once seems very unlikely, especially in the U.K. where gun crime isn’t common.

If’s most likely that the woman charged isn’t going to lead to a murder conviction (either because she didn’t kill them or it’s manslaughter via supply of drugs) but it’s right to be somewhat suspicious of stories like this, especially since people don’t seem to naturally match up ‘woman arrested’ stories with their eventual outcome, which is often ‘man convicted’ (no shade intended, it often takes a year or more to come to trial so if you aren’t local/paying attention, it’s understandable).

A male friend of mine was arrested for the murder of his own elderly mother, but the charges were dropped eventually (burglary gone wrong). It was very hard for him because he couldn’t grieve his mother properly and he was shunned by family. Some gossipy people still assume he’s a murderer who ‘got away with it’, despite the perpetrator getting a life sentence.

I really feel for the Ilford woman in the 2021 story - imagine coming home from work to find your boyfriend and his mate had been stabbed almost a hundred times? And calling for help, only to get tasered by the cops? And then presumably held in a cell for some hours wearing a paper forensics suit? And the crime scene is your own home, so no sanctuary for you. Plus all the usual stress of a trial on a bereaved love one. Absolute nightmare.

In fairness to the police, they really have no choice but to arrest someone found standing over two corpses, holding the murder weapon. Imagine how the victims' families would feel if she had been responsible, but had not been arrested, and had therefore been able to destroy forensic evidence.

I agree with you that, "No smoke without fire" rumours can ruin lives, though. Happened to a friend of mine, and he wasn't even arrested - just questioned as a witness, along with dozens of others.

theworldie · 18/03/2024 19:57

My first thought on seeing the thread title was “oh, it’ll be a man then”

Thats the problem. Even if it actually IS a woman, most people will just assume it’s a (trans)woman as it’s so highly unlikely to be a woman and given the media’s high propensity of reporting TW who commit crimes/do awful things as being women.

It’s really dangerous and misleading.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 20:18

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 19:39

We can no longer trust this data. Men convicted of murder are recorded as being female so who knows what the actual percentage is.

We don't know exactly what the true percentage is. However, the difference between the claim that 'only 2% of homicide perpetrators are women' made by a PP, and the actual stat of 8%, is not because 6% of murderers are TW.

How do I know? Firstly because the proportion of homicides committed by women is pretty stable. Secondly, there are about 600 homicides per year - so 6% is 36 - and about only 60,000 TW (according to 2021 census). Assuming the average TW lives 80 years, that would give them a 5% lifetime chance of being a murderer - 50 times greater than the chance of an average male (0.1%).

I share the frustration that male crimes re being recorded as female, but exaggerating the current scale of the problem is likely to be an own goal, as it makes it easy for opponents to shoot down our arguments. One male murderer recorded as female is too many. There is no need to exaggerate.

Chersfrozenface · 18/03/2024 20:37

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 20:18

We don't know exactly what the true percentage is. However, the difference between the claim that 'only 2% of homicide perpetrators are women' made by a PP, and the actual stat of 8%, is not because 6% of murderers are TW.

How do I know? Firstly because the proportion of homicides committed by women is pretty stable. Secondly, there are about 600 homicides per year - so 6% is 36 - and about only 60,000 TW (according to 2021 census). Assuming the average TW lives 80 years, that would give them a 5% lifetime chance of being a murderer - 50 times greater than the chance of an average male (0.1%).

I share the frustration that male crimes re being recorded as female, but exaggerating the current scale of the problem is likely to be an own goal, as it makes it easy for opponents to shoot down our arguments. One male murderer recorded as female is too many. There is no need to exaggerate.

The 2% figure quoted by a PP is the worldwide percentage.

Statista says around 9 out of 10 homicide suspects were male in England and Wales between 2010/11 and 2021/22. I can't find UK government figures for perpetrators, only victims.

Also, 'homicide' in England and Wales includes murder, manslaughter and infanticide (the last being an offence which can only be committed a biological mother who kills her own child within 12 months of the birth).

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 20:56

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 18/03/2024 20:18

We don't know exactly what the true percentage is. However, the difference between the claim that 'only 2% of homicide perpetrators are women' made by a PP, and the actual stat of 8%, is not because 6% of murderers are TW.

How do I know? Firstly because the proportion of homicides committed by women is pretty stable. Secondly, there are about 600 homicides per year - so 6% is 36 - and about only 60,000 TW (according to 2021 census). Assuming the average TW lives 80 years, that would give them a 5% lifetime chance of being a murderer - 50 times greater than the chance of an average male (0.1%).

I share the frustration that male crimes re being recorded as female, but exaggerating the current scale of the problem is likely to be an own goal, as it makes it easy for opponents to shoot down our arguments. One male murderer recorded as female is too many. There is no need to exaggerate.

The fact is we can't trust the official data. We shouldn't be having to rely on the maths of someone on Mumsnet to work out what the stats are.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/03/2024 07:38

Signalbox · 18/03/2024 20:56

The fact is we can't trust the official data. We shouldn't be having to rely on the maths of someone on Mumsnet to work out what the stats are.

I certainly agree with that.

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