Woman arrested after two men found dead

[TurtleMoon]

Very few details but my first thought was that this is highly unusual...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/17/woman-arrested-two-men-found-dead-house-hartlepool

Is it exceptionally rare, though?

I'd say female murder is rare. Violent female murder is exceptionally rare. Doubly so female-on-male.

Given the lack of any indication of method, it could be non-violent, and that's the main reason I'd give benefit of the doubt that it could be really female.

The accused in this case has been released on bail.

And this is the other very likely possibility - the same as the case above. Arresting a person on the scene, on suspicion, but she's not the perpetrator. Again, given the odds, if the person on the scene is female, it probably wasn't her, but you've got to check, because it's not impossible.

It is changing slowly. Until very recently, any discussion outside this board was very quickly moved back. Hence this board became known as the naughty corner. I think it is a good thing that the subject is being raised elsewhere.

The muddying of the waters by media and police (and politicians) calling men women, and the fact that murder is mostly a male crime (even the skewed reporting of the correct sex of criminals) makes us see a headline like that and think ‘I wonder’.

Like when you see a ‘100 women…’ or ‘women’s prize for…’ and know there will be some in there who don’t belong.

My first thought was that the killer may well turn out to be a man. I don't trust the press at all now.

Women don't often kill men, women don't often kill two men. Or not at the same time, at least. But we don't yet know if they were killed at the same time or, indeed, any details about this one.

But I still don't believe the press. Never will again.

What, women's rights are being discussed by women on a site called Mumsnet, left, right, and centre? Shocker.

I mean, this particular story also covers trust in the media and police. Which affects everyone.

Agree with this. We can no longer take "woman" at face value where the police, the justice system and the news media are concerned. I wish we could.

There is an outside chance it may have been committed by a woman. However, the police and the Guardian have continually been untruthful about the ‘Scarlet Blake’ person being a woman. In fact, it was the convicted murderer themselves who admitted being a Transwoman (i.e. male who ‘identifies’ as a woman) in court. I believe ‘Blake’s’ conviction is (falsely) being recorded as a crime being committed by a woman.

Interestingly the ‘Scarlet Blake’ murderer said they sometimes identified as a cat too. Don’t know why the police and the Guardian did not report this equal falsehood as fact. Selective falsehoods according to their tenets, I suppose. If they had (as false as their saying ‘Blake’ was a woman) reported the accused as a cat murderer, the next time a cat identified person committed murder, someone might say ‘cats have murdered like this before’.

It wasn’t just the Guardian of course. Most other news outlets falsely reported the murder as being committed by a woman.

Why are you talking about 'women' as a homogeneous block who share one opinion only?

Where did I do this?

It's not just the media we can't trust now. Crime statistics and census data are also inaccurate because the police and the Office for National Statistics have both accepted people self-identifying as the opposite to their natal sex. So we have recent rape statistics which show some perpetrators as female, which was virtually unknown before in England and Wales, where the law distinguishes between rape and sexual assault by specifying that rape involves the use of a penis in the assault.

pronounsbundlebundle · Today 00:51

The main point is that we can't believe journalists any more.

Yes, given the recent reportage of males killing, but being described as females, many are immediately sceptical, when we read headlines like this. It may be that they've died of drug overdoses, but when there's a suspicious death, others in the house tend to be detained.

If it's violent, they don't tend to be released on bail. I just can't tell yet.

The local paper has a bit more detail than the nationals. Neighbours say the house is lived in by a man. The woman arrested is out on bail, which is pretty quick if she is seriously a murder suspect.

I find Mumsnet to be often much more accurate in terms of reporting of events than the mainstream media. Blake the male murderer is a good example of this.

That's not a good state of affairs - lovely though all the vipers are and in some case absolutely brilliant at researching and verifying facts.

I find it quite funny all the posts about 'but women can murder too' - are the nasty women not being credulous enough on here? We're so difficult what with using our brains and all that critical thinking.

Many women, and men too from the comments on many news articles, are now automatically assuming now it's not a woman whose committed whatever sexual or violent crime reported until we have cast iron evidence to the contrary which, given the state of journalism and their constant obvious lying, is quite difficult to achieve.

Why SHOULD we believe them? We don't owe them a thing. They said 6ft 5 Dolatowski who attacked a child in a 'women's' toilet was a woman. Not considering at ALL the impact this would have on the child victim or her family. She knows it was a bloody enormous bloke who attacked her - why is the press siding with her attacker, prioritising his gender feelz over basic respect for the victim - reporting accurately what happened.

I assumed Scarlett Blake was a woman even though the crime screamed male violence.

Even after all of the shit, I believed the reporting.

Never again. Not saying it's impossible, but statistically it's improbable and the press and the police lie which tips the balance even further.

Yes. What a shitshow.

Women do murder but female pattern violence and male pattern violence are generally pretty different.

Some women were prolific murderers back in the day when lethal poisons were readily available, husbands, lodgers, neighbours, little bit of cyanide in the apple pie, wait for the outcome… but science and substance control laws made that impossible (a good thing!).

Women who kill are almost all either accomplices to male muderers, hit man hirers or Angel of Death types and sadly, victims of women tend to be their own family members, often children.
Two adult males at once seems very unlikely, especially in the U.K. where gun crime isn’t common.

If’s most likely that the woman charged isn’t going to lead to a murder conviction (either because she didn’t kill them or it’s manslaughter via supply of drugs) but it’s right to be somewhat suspicious of stories like this, especially since people don’t seem to naturally match up ‘woman arrested’ stories with their eventual outcome, which is often ‘man convicted’ (no shade intended, it often takes a year or more to come to trial so if you aren’t local/paying attention, it’s understandable).

A male friend of mine was arrested for the murder of his own elderly mother, but the charges were dropped eventually (burglary gone wrong). It was very hard for him because he couldn’t grieve his mother properly and he was shunned by family. Some gossipy people still assume he’s a murderer who ‘got away with it’, despite the perpetrator getting a life sentence.

I really feel for the Ilford woman in the 2021 story - imagine coming home from work to find your boyfriend and his mate had been stabbed almost a hundred times? And calling for help, only to get tasered by the cops? And then presumably held in a cell for some hours wearing a paper forensics suit? And the crime scene is your own home, so no sanctuary for you. Plus all the usual stress of a trial on a bereaved love one. Absolute nightmare.

.

EDIT - I'm retracting the above due to this found on other news sites. Why do high visibility patrols if they have the murderer. I agree with pp, this is drug related.

Cleveland Police said the circumstances surrounding the deaths were being investigated, with patrols stepped up in the area.

Police are carrying out high visibility reassurance patrols in the area and these will continue over the coming day

Very elderly victims would fit a known female offending pattern (Angel of Death) but two in one house on the same day still seems unusual.

Women do kill. Statistically speaking, when women do kill, they usually kill their own children and there's usually mental illness involved.

They rarely kill two men at the same time. Can't think of any case. So this would be very unusual if it was really a woman who did it.

Media no longer accurately describes the sex of the alleged perpetrator.

The overwhelming majority of murders are committed by men.

Alleged murderers described as women are therefore more likely to be men.

Obviously those are sweeping statements but it’s not an unreasonable suspicion any more.

Some of those women will be innocent. Some will be the old fashioned kind of woman. Some will be trans identifying men being referred to as women.

If we are saying that the truth is important (I agree), then it is important that we are truthful.

We can't, on the one hand, criticise the media for reporting male crimes as female, then, on the other hand, criticise posters for making statements about female homicide that are simple statements of fact (women do murder). If we do so, we undermine our own argument that truth is important- it's an own goal. It's more honest and constructive to acknowledge that women do commit murder, just at a much lower rate than men.

We all want to raise awareness of male crimes being categorised as female. Jumping down the throats of PPs who have pointed out that women do commit murder is an excellent way to deter them from engaging with FWR and GC issues, Another own goal.

Yes, it's the fault of TRAs that we now think probably a man when we hear of murder commited by women. If they hadn't insisted on all these lies then people would be more likely to believe reports.