JKR vs IW

[ZeldaFighter]

Are we going to talk about this? I think JKR was feeling a bit grumpy today 😀

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jk-rowling-india-willoughby-twitter-gender-b2507309.html

I am a bit worried that "naice" people will think JKR is being horrid.

Plus all the TwiX posts about women, often lesbian women, with short hair being men because they don’t conform to gender stereotypes.

Pure misogyny.

IW is happy to misgender others, tweeting "I count at least SIX men in this photo"

https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1763582594526941224

Rowling said "I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans."

She "knows and loves trans people. " I wonder if she misgenders those trans people she "knows and loves."

I wonder what would make her march for trans rights? The fact is that many employers won't employ transgender people, that there is a three-year waiting list for treatment, that they are more likely to be sexually assaulted, more likely to be poor. Does she think no transgender people are discriminated against on the basis of being trans?

Why isn't she marching?

IW was doing all this constantly, every day, for months before JKR eventually responded and is now crying about it.

I read DadJoke's comment wrong, sorry. I'll ask for my post to be deleted.

Maybe it could be written thus

tHEy

or

they

I don't mean that I don't care whether trans people are discriminated against.

I meant that I don't care what JKR does in her spare time.

That comment was misjudged and I've reported it and asked for it to be deleted.

Why should she march after all the abuse she has received. Jesus fucking Christ, you start out from a place of support and get battered by slogans on signs until you finally lie down and let them march over you!

Why can't she talk about male rapists in female prisons? Why can't she talk about male athletes in female sport? Why can't she say a male is a male?

Goodwill supposed to be is a two way street.

"Misgendering" isn't discrimination, in fact by consistently using sex-based pronouns you are treating everyone equally in how they are referred to, without exception.

Why on Earth should anyone respect someone who fantasised about kidnapping them and bundling them into a van. Someone who blamed her for the awful murder of Brianna. Someone who has constantly insulted lesbians? Respect is a two way street, she's not a bloody doormat.

More likely to be sexually assaulted?

More likely than whom?

Can you also post the sources for your statements that employers won’t employ transgender people, and that transgender people are more likely to be poor ( and again, poorer than whom)

I am sure there are transgender people who are discriminated against, just as black people, single parents, people with disabilities, people with mental health struggles and many other groups are discriminated against. Because as in many things , unless you are a white middle class man you are likely to come across discriminatory behaviours at some point in your life.

Remember that just as the “trans kids are more likely to commit suicide” was proved to be an exaggerated claim it does your cause no favours to make sweeping statements unless they can be backed up by evidence.

Yes. Someone who compared her to one of Britain's most famous prolific sexual abusers. She was compared to him because of all her charity work.

I got deleted once before for pointing this out.

An alternative is to use the name of the person instead of using a pronoun, it sounds clunky, but gets the point across a bit like continually hitting a nail with a hammer gets it into the wood.

Ref the guidelines, I note these are dated 2018. Given that things have moved on since then, most notably that GC views are WORIAD and protected under the EA, why do we still have to mis-sex people like Windy?

An alternative is to use the name of the person instead of using a pronoun, it sounds clunky, but gets the point across a bit like continually hitting a nail with a hammer gets it into the wood.

Thames valley police managed a bulletin on Blake which totally avoided using pronouns for him, either by using his name or just wording so as to not need them.

We're not compelled to 'respect' the pronouns of egregious criminals like him. For others, the general MN guideline is for civility and courtesy so actively using terms a person rejects tends to be disallowed - that works both ways to the limited extent we can refuse 'cis' being applied to us.

Christ, where to start…
Is the Joke in your username in reference to the fact that you post laughable nonsense?

We do, but we’re not allowed to talk about them are we? Don’t all baking references get threads deleted as well as those that may refer to factual biological sex?

Had a long post here, posted it, then saw that @Viques had said the same but rather more eloquently.

So I've deleted mine.

It's not that you can't talk about cakes, it's that you can't smother a thread and stifle debate by deliberately derailing and filling a thread with recipes.

Misgendering isn’t even a thing, we’ve always used pronouns based on sex, most of us still do this. You’re inventing fake problems to play victim. Grow up.

People talking about IW's misogyny is a 'soft version of swatting'

Yes, yes it is. Just like when TRAs sent an actual SWAT team to mumsnet founder Justine Robert's house for allowing women to talk

https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1765369896181887220

We're not compelled to 'respect' the pronouns of egregious criminals like him. For others, the general MN guideline is for civility and courtesy so actively using terms a person rejects tends to be disallowed - that works both ways to the limited extent we can refuse 'cis' being applied to us.

True. I firmly reject the term "cis". However, it's not something I personally would report.

I like to see who's using it and why. Sometimes new people join this board, some people are new to this whole topic, some people might think that's what you're 'supposed' to say, some don't want to upset anyone etc. etc. All fine. When it's explained, they get it.

More interesting are those who, when the rejection of "cis" is explained, double down, keep using it, tell us it's 'what us lot are', tell us it's 'just a word', basically say we have to accept it.

It tells me a lot about a person.

The fact is that many employers won't employ transgender people

Really? Can you provide a link to a reputable source for that claim? I.e. not Pink News / Independent / Guardian.

that they are more likely to be sexually assaulted

Really? Can you provide a link to a reputable source for that claim? I.e. not Pink News / Independent / Guardian.

viques · Today 14:12

An alternative is to use the name of the person instead of using a pronoun, it sounds clunky, but gets the point across a bit like continually hitting a nail with a hammer gets it into the wood.

Yes and as with they / them, it can feel nicely subversive.