JKR vs IW

[ZeldaFighter]

Are we going to talk about this? I think JKR was feeling a bit grumpy today 😀

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jk-rowling-india-willoughby-twitter-gender-b2507309.html

I am a bit worried that "naice" people will think JKR is being horrid.

That is chilling.

All of they's behaviour is chilling but that especially so.

Mumsnet, I haven't had any post cancelled yet but I'd really like to know if it is acceptable in my posts on here to use the factually accurate pronouns he/him about someone who would have been recorded as a male at birth (and similarly she/her about someone who was recorded female) regardless of how he (or she) currently presents themselves? This isn't a wind-up. I genuinely want to know.

I think misgendering is generally frowned upon except in cases where we're discussing a criminal. I've been deleted for using the wrong pronouns for IW too.

To me he always looks fed up as well.

As though he is too important to be there and he is just slumming it.

My correctly sexed comments have gone as well, I notice.

I should have had more sense.

I got deleted too. Maybe it was the male pronouns. I'll rephrase using gender neutral shapes in my next comment, maybe that will please the censors.

It must be very difficult waking up every day being India Willoughby, what a cursed life ██ lives. I'm not too surprised that ██ behaves as awfully as ██ does. No excuse for it of course but surely the burden of living a lie every hour of every day must be emotionally exhausting.

How very dare a woman choose not to lie to herself in order to pander to the delusion of a male. Forcing themselves into women's spaces is not good enough for them, we must also be forced to take part in the fantasy life they've chosen for themselves. It's pretty much sexually harassing women IMO.

It really isn't.

Rainbowshit · Today 11:05

This is what I do. I will not refer to people using wrong sex pronouns but in order not to get banned I have to resort to using "they" quotation marks and all as a protest.

I also try to be careful about using they / them, but it's easy to forget. I have been using the correct sex for the recent criminal cases, as that does seem to be allowed.

IW is the poundland version of Laurence Fox.

@Ingenieur thank you for clarifying. I am a GC then. I knew what i believed but couldn't get my head around the terminology!

@ArabellaScott i fully agree with you. You cannot change sex. I dont believe in gender.

Welcome to the club.

We have cakes!

Thanks for the replies so far. I'd really like to hear from Mumsnet about this. If posts are being deleted, is there some sort of standard guidance or policy that the moderators(?) are applying? I'd just like to know rather than just extrapolating from people's experiences. Can one accurately describe criminals but not others?

I guess I'm struggling because, to me, 'misgendering' means referring to someone as a different sex to the one recorded at birth, not the factually correct one.

Here are mumsnet's policies. In the interest of disclosure, I have not reported anyone on this thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

MN will probably refer you to the "talk guidelines".

However, these are not uniformly applied. I've had posts deleted on other threads for using certain terms, but I've seen other posters use those same terms and the posts are still there now. I am very glad that they remain, by the way.

There is no consistency. Also, the terms I am referring to are factually correct. Some trans people use them. MN is therefore saying they know better than trans people how trans people want to be referred to.

Oh, I cross-posted with our resident finger-shaker. Doing MN's job for it.

By the same principle, do we have to pretend that India has a cervix too, else be deleted?

It really isn't.

Yes, it is a form of sexual harassment that women are gaslighted that some sexual fetishist (NATWALT obvs) males are women and they don't have a right to object or question.

Many males regardless of "gender" identity get pleasure from making women humiliated and uncomfortable. Many males absolutely enjoy gaslighting in plain sight in that way. If you don't see this you are either naive or selectively blind to the reality of it all.

I think sometimes you profess to know better than trans people how trans people want to be referred to or what they would be offended by. It's arrogant.

I’m sure there’s a Uranus pun in there somewhere.

And number 1 on that list is -

1. We believe in free speech and civil debate. So we will, for instance, allow people to discuss biology and scientific evidence.

Unless things have moved on so significantly in the world of science in the last 24 hours that people can change sex then the evidence is clear.

There's a separate thread for this article but seemed appropriate to post it here too.
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-hidden-cost-of-pronoun-politeness/

It really isn't

You don't see anything sexual about this image?

You think it's perfectly fine that this male person worked in a school and that children were forced to participate in this fetish by calling this teacher Miss?

But IW saying they are more of a woman than JKR is misogynistic.

It shows they do have a 'cosplay' narrative of what a women is, if they think an actual woman is able to not be womanly enough. That's surely pretty much the definition of cosplaying womanhood?