Lesbian members club to only allow biological women

[JanesLittleGirl]

"A FEMINIST campaigner is to open the UK’s first lesbian members bar that will only allow biological women to join.

The bar, named the L Community, is due to open in London later this year and will operate as a private members club so that it can bar trans women.

The bar has been set up by Jenny Watson, who in September last year was at the centre of a transphobia row after she insisted only “adult human females” could attend the lesbian speed-dating events she had organised."

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1615/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/1615/pub/1615/page/23/article/NaN

I'll get an archive link in a bit.

Ok dadjoke, to avoid projection, can you give a straight answer to the following questions as written?
Do you believe trans people will be dishonest about their sex in order to access single-sex spaces such as this?

Do you think there is anything that differentiates a man from a woman, and if so can you give a concrete example?

Yes to all of this. Between no longer having my youthful lack of awareness and the current climate towards lesbians these spaces feel necessary again in a way they didn’t ten or even five years ago.

Which of them have a policy of excluding trans men though?

There was one five years ago that did so but quickly reversed.

The whataboutery is fascinating.
So many desperate not to be excluded from Lesbian Loving.
Mind you... we are rather good at it.

What role do female people have in male homosexuality? And vice versa. What role do male people have in female homosexuality?

Haven’t rtft but I’m pleased this has happened for women who will enjoy and benefit from it

Ignoring boundaries?
Inserting themselves where they're unwanted?
Performing arrogance?
Gaslighting others?

And worse.

I think it's very unlikely that any transgender lesbians will attempt to gain access to this club. I don't think it's ever dishonest of any transgender person to be in a single sex spaces matches their gender unless they have been excluded under the Equality Act.

There are people who lie about their gender in order to access single-sex spaces, though.
https://manfridayuk.org/about-us/

"What is a woman?" is never asked in good faith by gender critical people. My definition of woman includes trans woman. My definition of man includes trans men. That is the only answer on this topic you will get from me on this thread.

And my answer is always going to be that no, I don't share that perception, and I don't believe that there is ever a time when someone changes sex.

So I'll ask again: what role does a male person have in female homosexuality?

What's a transgender lesbian?
Asking for a friend.

If we cut through all the disingenuity and obfustication.

Some people believe that someone should be treated, in all ways, as if they are the sex they wish to be perceived as, and that no boundaries should be presented to this.

This means that in their view, female homosexuals should be willing to embrace a male person as being the female person they identify as, and consider them dating and sexual partners.

Some people do not share this belief and believe that sex is a fixed, material reality, and that homosexuality by definition means same sex attracted, unaltered by someone's personal choice of identity.

Some female homosexuals are therefore staggered at the idea that their homosexuality should be abandoned as unkind to a male person, that they should learn to tolerate unwanted and disliked straight sex, and in effect learn to be bisexual because a male person wishes them to. This to them seems outrageously and inhumanly misogynist and homophobic. To put it mildly. Rapey is another word that comes up frequently. And incredibly disrespectful of their identity, their sexuality, their bodily autonomy, and their equality, in comparison of what the male person is expecting of them.

As sex should always be based on mutual and equal consent and enjoyment (yes, even for female people), the obvious solution is that if it is very important for some male people to enjoy the identity and experience of calling themselves lesbians, that there are groups and organisations that welcome mixed sex lesbianism, where women are consenting to what are in fact, in my perception and reality based beliefs bisexuality, whatever they choose to call it - and female people who wish exclusively to date and meet with other female homosexuals in their leisure time equally have facilities in which they can do so without harassment. And everyone just gets on with their own way and leaves the others in peace.

But no, that's not ok is it? If you are not tolerant and accepting of female homosexuality, what would you like to describe that as? What role do you think a male person has in female homosexuality?

A man lecturing lesbians about our sexuality on a thread about lesbian dating. Such arrogance. And so predictable 😂

I really miss the old lesbian venues and nights and hope this new venture can sustain itself. Glass Bar, Southopia, Girl Friday at First Out… So many great places.

Well that's four, and I know there are more.

And yet, these twits desperately want women to believe that one, single bar, won't be financially viable.

The desperation is palpable.

It sounds to me like London is crying out for lesbian only venues.

Time will tell obviously.

I doubt it though. I'm sceptical this will even get off the ground, but if it does I'd wager it will be closed within two years. Posts on here just don't seem to recognise the combined impact of the economics of LGBT (or solely L, G, B or T) venues and the reality of public opinion amongst lesbians.

I've seen no evidence at all that there are enough lesbians so aggrieved by the possibility of trans women in existing lesbian venues that they will sustain another lesbian venue with trans-exclusivity as a USP. The economics just won't work in my view.

Would there be enough trans lesbians to make it viable though? Would admitting transwomen be enough to tip it over to viability?

I've seen no evidence at all that there are enough lesbians so aggrieved by the possibility of trans women in existing lesbian venues

I bet you haven't!

I'll just point out that you not mixing with lesbians who aren't interested in dick isn't evidence of anything other than you're not mixing with them.

Females just can't viably homosexual without male help, eh?

I guess we'll see. But good luck to those who want to be permitted to define their own perceptions, sexuality and bodily consent themselves, as women, without being made to revolve all of those things around what a male tells them to.

I honestly wonder wtf goes on between the ears of some people.

Most of these venues were trans inclusive though.

Well maybe that's why lesbians stopped going there.

I think what might make it viable if it was attractive to the majority of lesbians who don't want to exclude trans women. Even then, of course, it's a dreadful economic environment for any LGBT venue to succeed, so there would be no guarantees.

Honestly PlanetJanette, don't you ever catch your breath with horror at the sheer awfulness of telling homosexual people they cannot be homosexual?

This.

Is it news to you that all LGBT venues operate in extremely difficult financial contexts right now? It's nothing to do with 'male help' - its the basic economics of running a business.

The faux worry about viability.
Lol.

Why on earth flap about whether or not this can get off the ground? How is this your problem?

And how on earth do you think that disguises the fundamental homophobia this is based on, combined with an equally fundamental belief that a woman has no business doing anything that conflicts with the wishes of a male with a TQ+ identity to use her?