"Human Milk" ffs

[SecondUsername4me]

Not linking to DM (clicks) but an article on the app today talks about how one NHS trust has said that hormone fuelled milk produced by transwomen is equally as good for baby as breastmilk produced by women.

The director says the terminology Human Milk should be used as both milk types are equal.

In the letter, the Medical Director claims 'there is clear and overwhelming evidence that human milk is the ideal food for infants', referring to both breast milk and the 'induced lactation' of biological men

Ffs these poor babies.

The £££££ that has been thrown in faking shit for men so they can cosplay womanhood while actual disease and illness is left to fundraise for its own research is sickening.

I've just posted this on another thread, with a link, so no need to sully yourself!

😁

I find that shocking. Poor babies.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5010238-gender-surgeon-saying-the-quiet-part-out-loud?page=2&reply=133117845

I've never seen the evidence, do you have a link to that?

To be fair, I donated to two separate milk banks after the birth of my 2nd and 3rd children who are now 16 and 18. The terms "breastmilk bank" and "human milk bank" were used interchangeably back then so I don't really have an issue with using the term human milk bank. It differentiates that sort of milk bank from something like formula milk available from a food bank.

But the rest of it about how men can produce adequate breastmilk to feed babies they haven't gestated and birthed - rubbish.

Honestly it infuriates me that women have bled since humans began and only in the last year are period products being tested with actual blood.

Yet in the last (say) 10 years the trans movement has exploded and all of a sudden we can lob off / create fake boobs and vaginas and breastmilk for men. Zero actual medical need.

It's a man's fucking world alright.

The post above yours will take you to a link.

I'd assume an element of using the expression "human milk" was as an alternative for using the word breast, in some attempt to be polite. Not as a catch all for fake milk induced in a man's chest.

BeautifulViews · Today 10:38

I've never seen the evidence, do you have a link to that?

The evidence shows that it, unsurprisingly, is vastly inferior. Also, men on drugs can barely make enough daily for a single feed and that's without the traces of drugs in the fluid they produce.

Perhaps these (male?) NHS directors can allow their own babies to be sustained with this toxic, artificial hormone juice. Let's see how long it takes a male to pump 6 ounces of toxic sludge out in the directors living room. Anyone fancy topping up babies milk from the local 'Male nipple excretion' bank?....... No thank you!

I only found a link to DM articles, no actual studies. I've searched online and only found studies that say it's basically the same as non-induced breast milk.

The milk banking charity - these banks are not routinely NHS funded - refers to both breastmilk and human milk interchangeably. Also donated milk. Their website makes lots of references to mums and mothers.

Having donated breastmilk over many months in two separate hospitals, there are LOTS of hoops to jump through. Before being accepted as a donor, there are blood tests and they ask for access to your maternity notes. If you take as much as a paracetamol you have to tell them. Some medications rule you out from donating entirely - even if you are feeding your own baby as a healthy 3 month old is very different from a 28 week premature baby.

It's clearly ridiculous that they are even contemplating allowing men to donate a hormone-laden cocktail of secretions. But no neo-natal paediatrician is ever going to choose to give that fluid to a very sick and very prem baby over milk from a woman, or even special formula. Once you donate your milk you don't know what's happened to it anyway. Anyone who has ever expressed milk will know it's hard going, I also struggle to see how any men will ever produce more than 5ml in a go.

Here's the link - sometimes the pious avoidance of the Mail causes more issues than it cures. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13095965/Row-hospitals-say-hormone-filled-milk-trans-women-born-male-just-good-baby-real-thing.html

Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust which I assume covers Brighton. What a surprise. Rosie Duffield absolutely right in saying "Babies can't be used as guinea pigs for someone else's lifestyle choice."

Is the "5 month study" they are referring to that one where a MTF tested their own secretions? Breast milk arguably has benefits many years down the line. 5 months wouldn't be enough to measure that.

@MacaroonMacaron Surely all breastmilk can be described as 'a hormone-laden cocktail of secretions'. If induced milk has the same chemical makeup and nutritional value as natural milk, what's the problem?

I've searched online and only found studies that say it's basically the same as non-induced breast milk.

Could you link them here please? There are lots of people here with knowledge in this area.

Is that the one where he said it was more exciting than anything a lover had ever done to him and not to judge him? And the doctor in charge was also MtF?

🙄

"Instead we have the supposed four types of AGP mind explained to us, these are: transvestic (clothes), behavioural (getting turned on by typical behaviours of a woman, i.e. sexist tropes), anatomic (wanting a female body) and physiological (‘arousal by the fantasy of having female body functions’,"

My bold.

https://the-lies-they-tell.org/2024/02/11/review-of-book-transsexual-apostate-by-debbie-hayton/

Ffs what is wrong with the NHS???

Lactation Induction in a Transgender Woman: Macronutrient Analysis and Patient Perspectives - PubMed (nih.gov)

Most of what I find says it hasn't been researched much yet!

This is a review of several studies by a medical doctor.

lascapigliata.com/2023/07/03/case-study-2-experiment-of-induced-lactation-in-a-trans-identifying-male-excerpt-from-born-in-the-right-body/

That money and research should go to ACTUAL women struggling to feed their own babies. The breastfeeding support groups are all closed down round here due to lack of funding, women aren't supported, they're made to feel like failures, feel like they can't go to GP for help etc

But here we are are, funding this to fucking self obsessed men who want to feed babies full of chemically induced milk so they can fulfil a fucking sick fantasy of their own.
Forcing a baby to suck a man's breast tissue to get the essential nourishment they need to survive and thrive, all so the man can pretend he is a woman is seriously fucked up.

What would you prefer for your sick, pre-term baby?

Well, if you're happy for a man to take drugs and attach your baby to his nipple to feed
Then good for you.

But why isn't the funding, support and research being used for women to feed their babies. Women who struggle to produce mil, who struggle to latch, who struggle with the emotional fallout of "failing", who struggle to ask for help because this is "something all women should be able to do", ...

Why are men who want to fulfil their own messed up fantasies more important than the MILLIONS of mothers???

I wouldn't have a reference if they are indeed identical but I'm being told that studies have found they are not but not where i can find these studies.

What is the problem they're trying to solve here? I can't see anything here in babies' best interests.

Thanks @BeautifulViews the review I posted looks at that study as a footnote. The amount of milk produced would not alone be enough to sustain a baby, and there are concerns that it was compared to a later stage of breast milk, not breastfeeding a newborn. The baby was already being fed by its mother.

From the review:

Incomplete analysis of male nipple discharge: presence of medications including Domperidone, cross-sex hormones or antibodies in the male breast fluid not measured; sodium not measured (it was low-ish in another study); other nutrients “at the same level or HIGHER” (not necessarily a good thing); comparison with mature mother’s milk (70-94 days after delivery) not with colostrum or transitional milk appropriate for a newborn.

Uniqueness of mother’s milk to the baby and its fundamental difference from male nipple discharge wasn’t explored.

Inadequate volume (just 150ml per day) mitigated by the fact that mother was breastfeeding this baby the entire time

If the infant had access to adequate nutrition, immune support and bonding via breastfeeding from their own mother, and developmentally appropriate formula is available should anything go wrong, the only reason this experiment was conducted was to satisfy the desire of the man, not to benefit the baby.

I was actually thinking I hope nobody is feeding men's milk to kids when I read this. I got the wrong end of the stick (literally).
But it's utter bunkum. God knows what all these hormones will do not only to the babies but to men - cancer and god knows what. It will all come out in the end.