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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Get back in your box women, you're a right wing animal if you think men should be kept out of sport. "Why have rightwingers made even parkrun a battleground for trans people?"

214 replies

AlphariusOmegron · 14/02/2024 09:19

Right wingers, meant as an insult, are to blame for ruining Park Run, not men in frocks.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/14/why-have-rightwingers-made-even-parkrun-a-battleground-for-trans-people

Complain here:
https://www.theguardian.com/info/2014/sep/12/-sp-how-to-make-a-complaint-about-guardian-or-observer-content

Voices must be heard, even if this is an opinion piece. This mad ideology only continues whilst we allow it and not speaking up is a CHOICE to allow it to keep happening.

Why have rightwingers made even parkrun a battleground for trans people? | Jonathan Liew

When non-competitive, mass-participation jogging is annexed by the culture warriors, it’s clear there are other agendas at play

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/14/why-have-rightwingers-made-even-parkrun-a-battleground-for-trans-people

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AlphariusOmegron · 14/02/2024 09:22

Should you wish to, this is my letter to the guardian, feel free to steal as much of it as you like.

Dear Editor,
I am writing to express my profound disappointment and concern regarding the portrayal of individuals who advocate for the protection of women's sports in a recent opinion piece published in your outlet. I find it deeply troubling that the article seems to categorize those of us with legitimate concerns about the fairness and integrity of women's sports as "right-wing," thereby dismissing our arguments and concerns as purely politically motivated.

It is my strong belief that advocating for the protection of women's sports is not a matter of political ideology but of fairness and safety for female athletes. The suggestion that such concerns are inherently misogynistic, racist, or antithetical to feminist principles is not only baseless but deeply offensive. As a parent of a daughter, I am acutely aware of the importance of ensuring a level playing field where her rights and opportunities are not compromised.

Additionally, I find it particularly offensive that a man has authored this piece on a matter so intrinsically linked to women's rights and spaces. This choice effectively silences and marginalizes women's voices, further exacerbating the issue by prioritizing male perspectives on a subject that primarily affects women. Such editorial decisions undermine the importance of amplifying female voices in discussions about their own rights and protections.

I urge The Guardian to reconsider the framing of such discussions in its publications. It is essential to foster a balanced and nuanced conversation that respects the complexities of this issue, rather than resorting to divisive labels and accusations. As a long-time reader, I hope for a more inclusive and respectful approach to sensitive topics in the future.
Sincerely,

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2024 09:26

Just when I thought I couldn't hate the Guardian more...

This is the same guy who wrote that stupid article for the Independent a few years back, do you remember?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/caster-semenya-news-gender-martina-navratilova-trans-cas-jonathan-liew-column-a8792861.html

I wouldn't mind so much if these men just said: "I hate women. They're silly and pathetic and their sports don't matter." At least it would be honest. It's the fact that they do it under the guise of being progressive and painting those of us who stand up for women as right-wing extremists and culture warriors.

The prejudice of those who argue against trans, intersex & DSD athletes

This week, DSD athlete Caster Semenya has fought the decision to set a limit on allowable testosterone levels for athletes. And, for some, this is the final stroke of the Doomsday Clock, the opening of the floodgates

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/caster-semenya-news-gender-martina-navratilova-trans-cas-jonathan-liew-column-a8792861.html

lanadelgrey · 14/02/2024 09:28

This sentence is factually wrong.
‘if you’re one of the growing army trying to restrict the access of trans people to sport’.
No one is restricted from their own sex or open category. It is true that for fair competition, some people want to restrict ‘ the access of trans people women to sports that are segregated into male and female categories. Hope FairPlay have seen the piece.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/02/2024 09:29

That's a good letter OP. It's a grim hyperbolic article isn't it? Lacking in evidence or critical thinking but full of catastrophising hysteria.

nauticant · 14/02/2024 09:30

He put up his article on Twitter. And then, horror of horrors, people responded:

https://twitter.com/jonathanliew/status/1757684549272601084

dapsnotplimsolls · 14/02/2024 09:31

I saw the title of the article earlier but couldn't face reading it.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 14/02/2024 09:35

So much to be angry about. I picked out this:

there is of course a genuine fear there: the feeling on the part of certain women that their space is being encroached upon, that trans rights are an extension of the patriarchy they have long been fighting. The problem is that this anger is being whipped up and exploited by malign actors, the media and politicians of on the reactionary right, to advance causes that go well beyond the remit of women’s sport

So, the women are stupid pawns, people who agree with them are malign, right wingers want to stop trans people existing. I'm not right wing but I don't actually think they're as malevolent as all that. He's insulted just about everybody.

dapsnotplimsolls · 14/02/2024 09:37

We iz just fick, innit?

WickedSerious · 14/02/2024 09:41

dapsnotplimsolls · 14/02/2024 09:31

I saw the title of the article earlier but couldn't face reading it.

You're very wise,it's giblets.

nauticant · 14/02/2024 09:42

A very on-point reply tweet:

https://twitter.com/SophieRunning/status/1757698194803204285

BackToLurk · 14/02/2024 09:46

nauticant · 14/02/2024 09:30

He put up his article on Twitter. And then, horror of horrors, people responded:

https://twitter.com/jonathanliew/status/1757684549272601084

Love Sophie Walker's response. Damned by his own words

ResisterRex · 14/02/2024 09:47

WE WANT OUR FUCKING STUFF BACK

4w.pub/a-message-to-those-recently-opining/

BackToLurk · 14/02/2024 09:47

Beat me to it @nauticant

grafittiartist · 14/02/2024 09:48

I've thought a lot about this recently.
I'd like to say a massive thank you to the women who did cause a fuss. I'm ashamed that I didn't.
Thank you for shouting, and sorry that you're receiving such ill informed angry sexist rubbish in response.
Daren't read the article!!

StephanieSuperpowers · 14/02/2024 09:50

Even in the guardian, the comments aren't open.

Lottapianos · 14/02/2024 09:56

Such a daft article. No one is interested in banning people who identify as trans from sports, they just need to compete with people of their own sex. Interesting that he's totally fine with women being kept out of sports though 🙄

RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2024 10:07

lanadelgrey · 14/02/2024 09:28

This sentence is factually wrong.
‘if you’re one of the growing army trying to restrict the access of trans people to sport’.
No one is restricted from their own sex or open category. It is true that for fair competition, some people want to restrict ‘ the access of trans people women to sports that are segregated into male and female categories. Hope FairPlay have seen the piece.

This is what I always want to ask. He must know that people aren't trying to restrict the access of trans people to sport. So is he deliberately dishonest, or just very very stupid?

MatchingBedding · 14/02/2024 10:17

Stupid misogynist. Can’t possibly get his head around the fact that women might not be happy losing their records to Bob who is now Crystal, so those women must be right wing bigots. How can they have printed that? If you’re ever in doubt about how much they hate you just read that. Utter vomit inducing woman hate.

lechiffre55 · 14/02/2024 10:23

@RoyalCorgi
There's an old american lawyer saying that lawtube like to quote. I think it sort of answers your question.
If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.

When there's no good arguments, you have to rely on just spouting crap.

Gulag · 14/02/2024 10:51

RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2024 10:07

This is what I always want to ask. He must know that people aren't trying to restrict the access of trans people to sport. So is he deliberately dishonest, or just very very stupid?

To be fair he probably means it in the same way we do when we talk about women being excluded from sport: that although technically they still can they are likely to be discouraged. I can clearly see that a trans person might avoid park run if they have to run under the appropriate sex category. That’s why an open category in which sex is not declared is needed.

WitchyWitcherson · 14/02/2024 10:55

Here's my letter of complaint in case of use to anyone. Fucking awful piece of trash article.

"Dear Editor,
I find the article published in your Sports section this morning :"Why have rightwingers made even parkrun a battleground for trans people?" incredibly problematic and offensive.

As a VERY MUCH LEFT WING feminist woman, the idea that fighting for the equal rights of women in sport is in any way remotely 'right wing', or a 'battleground for trans people', is misguided at best.

The "battle" isn't about trans people, it's about women - women have a right to same sex sport.

The article is full of hyperbolic misinformation - where it starts by claiming the fight is about "stopping 16-year-old girls from competing in sports" - WRONG; 16 year old biological females have nothing to do with the Parkrun debate, that this is about "erasing trans women from sport" - WRONG; there's nothing stopping transwomen from competing in male categories and many advocate for the creation of a third category), the article again insults concerned women calling them "genital inspectors" - WRONG; not only is this more offensive name-calling of women who have concerns, but fails to acknowledge that people who have completed male puberty do not need their genitals inspected - they are stronger, bigger, have a different gait, different facial features etc. AND THIS IS WHAT GIVES THEM THE ADVANTAGE - testosterone or not.

The article is FULL of sympathy for trans women, but fails to see that this "tiny minority" competing in women's sport has a devastating impact on THE VAST MAJORITY of women competing against them.

My issues with the piece are confounded by the fact that it was written by a man; I see this as no less offensive than a white person writing an article minimising or belittling the struggle of ethnic minorities. The article is absolutely dripping with misogyny.

The Guardian must reassess their stance on this topic and pull its head out of the sand. This is not a right-wing, left-wing issue. The Guardian is appeasing its men's rights activist and trans rights activist readers at the cost of alienating left-wing women.

Regards,"

jcakey · 14/02/2024 10:58

I've complained. I wonder if it's worth a complaint to IPSO too? On their code: "The press must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual's race, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation or to any physical or mental illness or disability."

RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2024 11:00

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.

Love it!

SinnerBoy · 14/02/2024 11:02

WitchyWitcherson · Today 10:55

That's an excellent letter, I must say.

UltraLiteLife · 14/02/2024 11:07

BackToLurk · 14/02/2024 09:46

Love Sophie Walker's response. Damned by his own words

I'm truly sorry that Sophie W wasn't able to exert the leadership of which she's clearly capable when she was with WEP.

As for right-wing, as Colin Wight expresses it:

Get back in your box women, you're a right wing animal if you think men should be kept out of sport. "Why have rightwingers made even parkrun a battleground for trans people?"