Why is the parkrun decision wrong?

[Getonnow]

It feels all wrong to me, but I've had lots of men tell me they thinks it's the right decision and the only thing they could do in the circumstances.

I think it's a cop out and they haven't dealt with the actual issue and also that they've lied about the real reason for the change, but I'm having trouble articulating it beyond that. Help me?

Personally I think the positive effect for a trans woman being able to compete in the category that fits her identity is more significant than the slight disappointment of other women possibly dropping down by a few places.

Why?

There is a transman who runs our local parkrun who is regularly in the first five to ten finishers. I get what you're saying about that person's training and athleticism being more of a factor than for transwomen but it still, surely, makes the results inaccurate. I think this is one where some sort of third category would be needed as they are presumably taking testosterone to a level which would be considered doping if that ran (correctly) as a woman so that's not fair either. But I really dislike the notion of third categories as it feels like a step towards saying there is more than just male/female.

Mind you our women's course record is held by a transwoman so we don't even know who is really the fastest female finisher.

The obvious. Because we all know who's a man and who has to accommodate. It's funny, in situations like this, it's always completely clear that everyone knows full well who the men are.

Okay and after being interested in, engaging with and understanding where others are coming from I'm genuinely curious to know why you thought telling them so what, and that men's feelings are more important than theirs was going to add to the conversation?

It's not about it being an echo chamber. It's about the fact that your whole answer against some well reasoned posts is "so what you don't matter". Which is quite frankly far more rude than calling someone sweetheart

How do you know it's just 'slight disappointment' for the women losing rankings, and not just 'slight disappointment' for the transwoman who has to compete in a male category? Maybe they'd just be mildly irritated that they can't compete as a women, and some of the women are majorly upset at having no chances to ever succeed in their own biological category!

It's just just 'one transwomen' pushing women down a few places - as soon as it starts happening, there will be more and more.

And there is harm to women, not just in being pushed down a few places, but in losing motivation and role models for those just beginning to run, or for girls coming up, or those women who want to pursue running more seriously. Parkrun could be the gateway to longer term fitness and exercise, which is notoriously difficult to get girls to do after puberty. And yet people say that their times and records don't matter, as long as the transwomen doesn't get disappointed by being made to face reality in this specific instance - something where it is clear that biology does matter.

No-one is saying they shouldn't run, or that it's not inclusive of them - just keep in the right category, or even make a new one.

You are of course entitled to your point of view. And my point of view is that you are not only bonkers but completely batshit mental if you really believe that the feelings of trans women trump those of women.

but hey ho, it’s a free country and all that

I thought there was "too much discussion" about this parkrun thing. Why are you discussing? Is it actually that there's "too many people who disagree with me and I can't cope please shut up"?

Its also important to note here...
The transwomen can still do Parkrun in female clothing, with female hairstyle, or make up etc.
They can still chose which name they want to be known as while doing it.
They can still run as a women. The only difference would be their results being measured against their biological sex, or a neutral category, rather than in the female category.

Indeed Stephanie. It's very obvious to many of us.

Personally I think the positive effect for a trans woman being able to compete in the category that fits her identity is more significant than the slight disappointment of other women possibly dropping down by a few places.

You say "a few places", presumably on the basis that there will only be a few transwomen in the "female" category and that the vast majority of "female" participants will still be women.

Is there a number of males registered as female that would tip the balance whereby it would be unfair to still call it a female category as opposed to being a mixed category?

If all the biological women except one left Parkrun and the "female" category consisted of all biological males except one, is that still fair for the woman?

So instead of changing it they have buried it? Literally could have changed it to make it fair without too much effort chose to pander instead

I do have to say, I agree that the idea that women should abandon their sporting ambitions and interests and gladly sacrifice such things for the so important glow that their losing to him may give a man is bonkers. There really is no other word for it.

This. No one is even grateful. It’s never quite enough.

I wouldn’t be surprised if news broke next year that it all started as an internet joke that got out of hand.

Parkrun seems to be pretty popular, I cant imagine the availability of stats is putting of a load of people who would consider parkrun ...but are put off by the stats. Sorry but that is complete BS

Personally I think the positive effect for a trans woman being able to compete in the category that fits her identity is more significant than the slight disappointment of other women possibly dropping down by a few places.

No. Bloody well no.

Personally I think it's disgraceful that a free event run by volunteers has become so toxic from both sides.

If you want a run organised exactly how you think it should be - whichever side of the debate you're on - then crack on and start your own and stop having a go at parkrun. Most parkrunners I know are heartily sick of the whole damn controversy.

So basically women should just shut up if something is unfair?

Maybe they'd just be mildly irritated that they can't compete as a women, and some of the women are majorly upset at having no chances to ever succeed in their own biological category!

On the other hand, maybe the transwoman would attempt murder over this (lookup Lauren Jeska). Nice, eh, really gets my sympathy.

I've had a first female finisher at a couple of parkruns (admittedly not recently)
I would feel aggrieved if a biological male had claimed that place that should rightfully be mine!
Same as I would in a paid-for race.

I recently got a medal for a women's team prize in a half marathon. Would I have felt slightly annoyed if another team had won because a biological male was in their team? Well yes, and more than slightly!

Why is that ok? Why should it be a "fun run" for women but competitive or fun run or anything in between for men?

If it's offered to you for free and it's not to your liking you say "no thank you".

You don't start demanding things are changed to suit you.

So a cross dressing man who claims he is a woman not only gets the thrill of being in the women’s race, but also the excitement of being easily able to beat them.

Why would you support such a man,@BiggerBoat1

Why are men’s feelings more important to you than women’s?

Or do you still see these men as poor, defenseless creatures, who hate their manhood so much that they would demean themselves by trying to enter womanhood?

Do you run? Is it your hobby? Do you go out on a rainy Monday evening to do hill repeats. Do you set your alarm at 6.30am on a Sunday to get a long run in? If not, it's a bit rich to be saying parkrun times/rankings etc don't matter. To an occasional runner they might not, but I'm part of the running community and they do matter.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You might want to try telling some TRAs that

So you don’t believe in the equality of the sexes?

If two public toilets were offered:

• one for men that was regularly cleaned and well maintained with several urinals and an intact cubicle
• one for women which is a single cubicle with a broken door that is never cleaned and is falling into disrepair

Should women just not go out or use the toilet and shut up as it’s free?

Or are they allowed to complain that the situation is unfair and ask that they are given something equal to what the men are being offered.

The irony of this statement! Why is this applicable for women but not for TWs? Surely if they don't like having to run as a man then they should say no thank you and not demand that things are changed to suit them.