Why is the parkrun decision wrong?

[Getonnow]

It feels all wrong to me, but I've had lots of men tell me they thinks it's the right decision and the only thing they could do in the circumstances.

I think it's a cop out and they haven't dealt with the actual issue and also that they've lied about the real reason for the change, but I'm having trouble articulating it beyond that. Help me?

1, because its a fudge they are letting men keep their stolen titles
2, they're still allowing men to cheat but covering it up
3, they are punishing everyone by removing the stats instead of asking men not to cheat
4, they're basically now gaslighting everyone to cover their abuse of women

Anything to please the men right

It’s a free fun run, to help everyone’s fitness, not the olympics. The amount of discussion about it seems completely out of proportion.

If the times matter, then they matter to the women too. If the times are irrelevant, then why have men’s and women’s? They have men’s and women’s because you can pose all the philosophical arguments you like, the reality of human nature is that the times matter. What parkrun are doing is this totally specious take that the times don’t matter except it’s ok for male people to win the women’s, and they think this is a better angle than the previous one that the times don’t matter except to men, which is all male people, although they are also making no apology for the previous angle. Which you could paraphrase as who gives a fuck about women. The new angle you could paraphrase as nobody gives a fuck about women but we are trying to make up more fake reasons why that’s not true.

The precise details varies (It's a race, it's not a race, it's a time trial, it's just a bunch of fat old women moaning, it doesn't matter to me where I place, I have to know where i place...) but the main theme seems to be;

'This is affecting Men now and We Don't Like It'.

It was probably best exemplified for me when I saw some guy tweet at Mara 'are you proud then Mara, some of us really liked having the stats 😥' (paraphrased).

Same as the situation with the Hampsted Ponds - until it affects men, who gives a shit, right?

I liked a response to that from FPFW.

I think it was the right decision. If it isn’t a race then don’t publish times. It is free, therefore I wouldn’t expect them to have the resources to properly check anyone is running in the right category whether sex or age. Maybe if you want to run a race pay the entrance fees for a race and then the resources should be there to ensure fairness.

For those who are more competitive but like informality and lack of expense sign up to Strava for free or something like it and compare your times with the other competitive runners who ran in the Parkrun and put their activities online.

So why have times and tables at all? Why doesn't everyone just run the route and be a bit more fit than they were before?

Or they could just randomly allocate everyone a time and a place number that was just completely made up. 'Well done Barbara, you did that in fourteen minutes and eight seconds and you were seventeenth.' They might as well, it would be just as meaningful.

I think it's the basic thinking that if men can't have women's records, nobody can have records.

So errr, dont click on threads about it?

They've said that "all runners will also still be personally notified of where they finished by gender and age category."
So men get real data, women get fobbed off with whatever the special menz deign to let them have.

Their initial letting of men take women's titles and self ID into the women's scores was deeply sexist - in fact male supremacist. And involved (probably) fear of saying no to said men and the very noisy, emotionally incontinent and boundary lacking lobby behind them.

Now they'd prefer to punish everyone for women making a fuss instead of sucking it up quietly. And to go on avoiding provoking said lobby into a tantrum.

Men are blaming women for this, because they were fine with women being fucked over, but now it matters and is totally injust because THEY are affected.

Park run would like really to say that they are as happily sexist as fuck and really are ok with the fact that men now hold women's records, but haven't got the nerve to own it. Which tells you that they know it's indefensible and embarrassing, and that they're doing wrong.

They should just let people time themselves and be done with making it a race. I thought it was meant to be running for fun.

320,000+ people ran a parkrun this weekend. How do you propose they stop anyone self ID-ing? I could probably get an amazing age grade if I identified as 90-100 but I’m only fooling myself.
What is the solution to a man claiming the women’s course record other than to not publish them by sex?
You could have men, women and open categories but you are still relying on everyone to correctly register their sex - there is no way to police it at a mass amateur event.

You don't need to police it. Decent men won't register as women. For those that do and start setting course records then you can have a word with them. All that we are asking is for redress where someone has abused the system. Under your "you can't stop them so don't try" system there is no redress. It really is that simple.

Don't join in then. 👋

This idea that you can't make a rule and ask men to have the decency and self respect to follow it voluntarily is part of the problem, I think. The bar for men is on the floor.

Surely the whole point is that park runs are for anyone and everyone so if getting rid of records allows it to be more inclusive that’s a good thing. As someone else rightly said, it’s not the Olympics. There are plenty of other ways to compete if that’s your thing.

There are plenty of other ways to compete if that’s your thing.

Not always locally. And Sportiv fees tend to be substantial and exclude people who can't afford them. Officially organised events tend to need the purchase of a race pass.

So the VW 85-89 at my local who was proper pleased with her course record and sure as hell doesn't own a fucking Garmin to self-time can just piss off with her competitive attitude then, eh? Because its for everyone and we should be inclusive?

It’s clear that people (and runners in particular) find it motivating to have their stats and to see how they “compete”. Women are also people (shock news to some!) . They also want to see how they “compete”, but against other women, not against men (because they are at a biological disadvantage). It’s really not that hard to grasp.

The whole
“men = real men” and
“women = other to real men, namely: men who don’t want to be men; men who don’t want to be men on race day; non binaries of either sex; biological women” is just so offensive. To me at least.

They're not getting rid of the records, they're just not publishing them. So you'll still get an email saying your gender position, but you won't know who (how many men) was ahead of you.

If it is truly non-competitive then they wouldn't bother timing it.

I think if a woman in her late 80s marching herself round a parkrun in just under an hour isn't put off by other people's records being recorded and is in fact motivated by the timing and record keeping then I don't know who the fuck has a problem with them? Who is that fucking bitter, frankly.

If you're "put off" from running a parkrun by having to confront your own lack of speed on a fucking table on an Internet page then sure as hell don't turn up to try and do one, especially not on a lapped course. I run a decent time but I get lapped by the fast bastards and it's like I'm standing still. If your ego can't take the hit then group running of any sort isn't for you. Why does someone else being fast make it any less fun for anyone, you don't have to try and beat them.

The idea that they've removed the records to be "inclusive" is pure stinking bull anyway. They've done it to try and not confront the real issue which is the fact they encourage men to register as women if they have special feelings about wearing skorts. They can't police it, tgata bloody red herring, but the don't have to officially allow or encourage it.