Why is Mumsnet so GC?

[ireallycantthinkofaname]

Maybe an odd question but I've never come across another space, online or otherwise, where being GC is the norm. IRL I only ever discuss GC views openly with one family member, whose stance on it is similar to my own, though, so I'm not saying it's unwelcome.... Just curious how/why it's come about. Any thoughts or theories?

Gosh.... and what is coded to produce those hormones that then act on those receptive cells....

Are you now attempting to weaponise CAIS in your arguments here?

Even male bodies that cannot use the testosterone being produced have male cues. Because. ... genetics. This has also been identified and things like height is well known here.

And even when a male then pumps their body with hormones to create 'female' cues, those male cues do not disappear. Who the fuck has led you to believe this?

So, no. Your arguments are again not based in science.

And your accusations of 'ideology' are simply projection.

I'm not sure we need to pay too much mind to Butters' self-serving "and everyone clapped" anecdotes.

How old are your nieces/nephews* Butterfly?

They are very very blunt and ask a lot of questions but you don’t honour that with honesty. What will you do when they ask a question like “why can’t Aunty Butterfly have children?” Will you lie?

What will you do when they eventually find out you’re male?

*what’s the collective noun for nieces and nephews?🤔 Is there a word equivalent to siblings?

Two wee sprogs who've been gaslit told since birth that Aunty Butters is female, have never thought to question it. Well, fancy that.

My parents told me about Father Christmas and the Easter bunny.

Rogue apostrophe

Niblings

It really seems that there is difficulty is being aware of anything outside of something that has direct impact on self and a definite lack of ability to critically think through stuff that some activists read being highlighted here. I think I was probably like this in my teens when simply regurgitating stuff to pass exams. I must admit that I didn't process stuff until I had left school and had time to process it all because of my living situation at the time.

But this really feels like seeing those indoctrinated conversations on social media between activists. The spreading of misinformation while never actually processing facts and making the connections that then lead to deeper understanding. All while existing in a bubble of affirmation where anything that resembles reality has been consigned as hate and lies.

I've seen niblings used to mean nieces and nephews.

Can I also suggest that you read what you wrote very carefully.

"I'm sorry it conflicts with your ideology but this axiomatic stance doesn't always match reality. My sister has two children. I've been in their lives since birth. Both of them are very, very blunt and full of questions about the world and would not hesitate to mention if they had even the slightest inclination that my sex at birth was male. Neither of them has ever had the slightest hint; we've never needed to mention it to them because there has been no reason to do so."

This sounds just like a mind experiment being done on two children. And you seem proud of this. Or do you like to sugar coat that action and declare it as being about privacy and children who are 'indoctrinated' by adults who live by 'ideological' principles are simply being shaped to be more tolerant and kind. By being denied truth in their learnings.

Please, do tell us what the philosophical term is for that. I am all ears.

Neither of them has ever had the slightest hint; we've never needed to mention
it to them because there has been no reason to do so.

Goodness me! I'm surprised such a remarkable case study hasn't been written up and published in a peer-reviewed journal. I'd have thought the professionals responsible for your transition would be falling over themselves to get such a resounding success more widely known. Or has it been published?

Kids do see gender, we unfortunately still live in a very gendered world. So they pick up stupid ideas like 'pink is for girls', 'doctors are men, nurses are women'. Hence the need for gender critical activism, such as let toys be toys and let clothes be clothes.

The tragedy now is too many are being taught that if someone doesn't conform to gender norms that's their problem - they need to change their bodies rather than break those norms.

Yeah I'm not sure that lying to children who trust you and who will one day realise the truth and feel betrayed, is the great idea that Butters clearly thinks it is. But 'it suits me, therefore it's the thing to do' is on brand for Butters, so...

Theres a kid in the year above DS. Boy.

Girls like him and play with him.

Was able to sit in on the period talk at school. Boys weren't.
Girls felt really unhappy about it. Uncomfortable. They know hes a boy.
They've literally been conditioned by age 9 to withhold their discomfort and be accepting of being second best to a single male and that their feelings dont matter by age 9.

So they don't express how they really feel to school.

They have to parents.

All so this kid can feel included in a lesson thats irrelevant to him at the expense of the girls. The legitimate aim of removing the boys is lost.

The girls won't speak freely or ask certain questions as a result either. It breaks the trust between the kids and school.

But yay cheering for inclusivity!

This is why if you centre the girls and the important of sex over gender the story looks very different. And theres total blindness to the actual impact on the kids involved.

Everyone has anecdotes.

Strangely the thing about anecdotes is they aren't allowed positive about how sex is being replaced by gender.

But so much has been deliberately silenced and there is a massive fear of not giving the politically correct anecdote...

Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!

And keep ahold of your banana
For fear the wolves devour your Nana

When you listen to adults talking about childhood experiences and traumas some of the stories that stand out are from adults who were lied to about their origins. Those who discovered they were actually adopted, their sister was in reality their mother, their father was not their biological father. In most cases, it was someone in the family / close friendship circle who leaked the truth or the child discovering a birth certificate etc.

We've discovered a lot about the psychological damage done to children by lying about family relations which is why the move has been towards openness and honesty to ensure the wellbeing of children. Suddenly because of an ideology that's based on a lie, that it's possible to change sex, lying to children is being advocated - TWAW or you're a bigot.

How can we expect children to become emotionally healthy adults when their trusted adults openly tell them untruths? It's of course up to parents to decide - it's evident that in the past many parents thought they were doing the right thing & protecting children by hiding the truth. Their intentions were good.

It's sad to see children's emotional wellbeing yet again being compromised by adult demands - especially in the light of all we know about the consequences. It's really not a neutral act to lie to children about family relationships.

I was wondering the exact same thing, based on the evidence base around openness about family relationships and assisted conception.

Even more likely to be damaging is the situation where everyone is lying to the child (to make an adult more comfortable) and the child can see that it’s a lie but is absolutely aware that they’re not allowed to say so. They know they have to maintain the lie and modify their behaviour because ‘Auntie’ BH’s feelings are the most important factor in anything.

They have many relatives who don't have children. We don't live in 1960 anymore - not having children isn't particularly unusual. I try to tell the truth about anything that comes up, where it is appropriate to do so, and have no interest in lying in this case.

😁 Croneofakind did a reworking last year. Alas there were no bananas.

Won’t anyone think of the poor ‘GC feminists’ lost in a tenderness world clutching our bananas for dear life?

Have you ever heard a more wretched predicament?

@ButterflyHatched one of your posts was auto hidden. What was it?

Copilot to the rescue yet again. Who could not be stirred to action by this campaign?

My favourite bit is that the learn more section it produced directs people to the guardian. Imagine LOJ on a banana boat clutching his gender-neutral compass.

Not sure why - it appeared to have instantly hidden for assessment by the mod team at the moment of posting so probably an auto-flag due to language (had a couple of profanities in there while talking about how frustrated I am with social programming I've been observing amongst my own relatives) and I don't want to push the matter while it is under evaluation.