Non Binary Teachers

[WandaWomblesaurus]

My daughter (older teen) has had a total of three non binary teachers across primary and high school.
All were biologically female.
All went by Mx.

I asked her about her observations of them and anything she noticed in common with them as I was curious about how they have affected her education over the years.

"They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships. A lot of talk about gender as would be expected. Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships."

"They hijack the subjects they are teaching putting gender in. So for example we had a relief teacher in an English class giving us a paper about girls saying they are boys and having mastectomies and we were asked to rewrite it in our own words. I wrote on the paper I didn't agree with it."

"All of them have trans flags, stickers, posters saying TRANS IS BEAUTIFUL. Advertising it as a lifestyle choice basically."

"They try and be charismatic by putting on the nb front of 'coolness' and progressiveness but actually they are all quite awkward and square."

"Clothing wise they still all majorly present as women. They might have a short haircut but they wear dresses and makeup and I don't see how they even look androgynous or are breaking any stereotypes."

"A lot of time in classes is spent trying to imprint their opinions on us and they go off topic. They only try and relate to the girls. They don't have the skills to relate to the boys. A couple of the girls in my classes talk openly about having crushes on these teachers."

"The MX is a big thing, they get very snippy if they aren't MX'd, even by kids who are struggling to understand basic things. The pronouns are always seen as more important than the student."

Curious stuff isn't it?
I can't imagine these teachers having power in schools for much longer.

It's saying to chldren 'you might perceive this adult as a man but in fact he's a woman (or nonbinary) - you're wrong - your eyes and ears are wrong and this adult is right and if you don't go along with it you're a terrible person / will get sanctioned / are not kind'.

Can those defending this not see the safeguarding issues with this?

@pronounsbundlebundle I think you are trying to twist the issue to make it fit into ‘safeguarding’ because it’s something you are uncomfortable with.

Just say “I don’t think a person can change sex” and that’s fine, I get it. But to somehow make out that by calling someone a different pronoun a child won’t be able to report abuse by that person? Or that it will damage their neurological development (as a PP tried to argue) is really stretching your argument to the limit.

It’s not an agenda - you need to learn to be respectful and address people how they would like too.
Yes I understand that some kids would find it hard to be remember but there will be some who get it wrong deliberately to be rude, mean or just because they don’t think it’s right.
you can disagree with someone but it costs so little to your life to address someone how they want to be addressed

It's abusing the English language too. Children learn language based on rules and this upends the rules which can have significant disruption on education.

If you're going to have individual pronouns then that's the same as names and it would be better to get rid of pronouns altogether.

It's also disability discrimination against the SEND kids.

Why does the adult's wants override the child's right to use their own words?

So its rude and disrespectful to label people in a way that they do not wish to be labeled yet TRAs, etc. do this all the time.

Why is this just a one way street?

Yes, the younger generation - those still in school, are generally very sceptical; in fact at my daughter's school ( she's a teacher) they laugh and joke about " getting cancelled".

Teaching children that they must pretend not to recognize the sex of a person in authority is clearly not in the interests of children's safety or well-being. The idea that knowing that someone is male or female, or that talking about that fact is shameful or a secret is surely obviously harmful.

give me an example of what a TRA has not addressed someone correctly

@pronounsbundlebundle if any school I worked in sanctioned a SEN child because they called a non binary teacher the wrong pronoun, I would be out there protesting with the rest of you. And I imagine it would be on the front page of the Daily Mail.

Interestingly, I tried to find out what would happen if a child refused to use the Mx name. The latest guidance says that teachers are not obliged to use gender neutral pronouns for children who request it, but they should find another way, such as always referring to them as their name. So I imagine it would be the same for the students. We did once have a supply teacher who asked students to call them ‘Teacher’ , not ‘sir’ or ‘miss’.

You can start with "cis", or "transphobe".

Not if the beliefs which under-pin their title are not in question, no. But gender ideology is not one of those types of situation. There is an element compulsion in getting people, who know better, to use pronouns that don't concur with observed reality - for the reason that trans identities are wholly socially constructed and rely on other people to validate them. They do not exist outside of this validation.

One can be polite and courteous without having to go along with pronouns. It is a wilful and narcissitic imposition, in my view, on the part of those that insist on them and that itself is not respectful.

@pronounsbundlebundle I think you are trying to twist the issue to make it fit into ‘safeguarding’ because it’s something you are uncomfortable with.

So do you disagree with @pronounsbundlebundle 's point that children are being effectively 'gaslit'? That they are being told by people in authority over them, who are in loco parentis, that the truth the children can clearly perceive with their eyes and ears is actually not true? And you can't see any reason why lying to children about this kind of thing might have implications for safeguarding?

We're not just talking about the ability to report abuse once it happens. We're talking about fostering a culture where children are able to trust what they are being told about the adults looking after them, and feel confident about talking about things that make them uncomfortable, without worrying that they will get in trouble for saying the wrong thing or calling someone the wrong thing.

How does the term ‘Mx’ undermine sex based safeguarding?

By itself, it doesn’t.
But it is the compulsion of use and punishment for mistakes, the flags, the posters, the talking inappropriately about your relationships, and shoe horning gender ideology into every lesson that is the problem.

From what the OP says, the pronouns are just a symptom of teachers with very poor skills. Sounds like they're being used, as they usually are, as a tool for forcing compliance (sometimes subtle social pressure, sometimes overt threat of sanction).

The underlying problem is teachers using children for self validation and prioritising their own needs/wants/feelings above those of the children they are supposedly responsible for.

This is quite common ime - there are lots of teachers with weak life skills, social skills, teaching skills. What is new, I suppose, is that 'diverse gender identitites' are a useful vehicle that allows people with these issues to find new ways to try to control, manipulate and exert influence on children ostensibly in their care.

Whereas a teacher making inappropriate political statements would be pulled up, however, I'm not quite sure that a teacher making 'gender' statements would be similarly brought into line.

It does make me think of a very new, shiny belief system that has been encouraged, fostered, and paid obeisance to by government and industry. It's created a whole wave of self identified priests who see a great way to access power.

And I can also find a bit of sympathy with what are probably young, inexperienced teachers, struggling with 'identity' issues and having been taught a lot of pish in uni, now coming up against those most clear-eyed, ruthless, and honest of judges - teenagers.

But in my experience it would be explained to a child, in an age appropriate way, that yes, this person looks like a woman but they want to be called “Mx” and “they”. But if you forget sometimes it’s fine. They are not being ‘gaslit’ or told “no, you idiot, that man with a beard is clearly a woman”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7171195/Teenager-17-insisted-two-genders-suspended-school.html

'A teenager suspended from school after insisting there are ‘only two genders’ has revealed he spoke out in protest at the ‘dangerous’ views being forced on to pupils.
The 17-year-old sparked an international debate about transgender rights and free speech after a secretly filmed video clip of him being reprimanded by his teacher went viral.
He was thrown out of class after arguing that only two genders exist – male and female – a position which his teacher claimed was ‘not inclusive’.'

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/teen-prosecuted-after-asking-whether-17651755

'Declan Armstrong, 19, was given a curfew requirement and ordered to pay £590 at Mold Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday after he was found guilty of making the comments to PCSO Connor Freel following an earlier trial.
Rhian Jackson, prosecuting, said Mr Freel had been in full uniform on foot patrol in Mold on October 16 last year when he passed Armstrong, who was with friend Chelsea Bassett.
She said: “Declan then shouted very loudly: ‘Is it a boy or is it a girl?’.” She said when Mr Freel looked over at Armstrong he made the comment loudly again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67754359

'Minister for Women and Equalities Kemi Badenoch added the guidance made clear "schools do not have to accept a child's request to socially transition" - a term referring to when someone wants to change their name, pronoun, or clothing to reflect their gender identity.
Teachers or pupils should not be pressured into using different pronouns, she said.'

For me, there's a lot of people getting whipped into a frenzy here based on the testimony of a random person on the internet's teenage daughter. Where is the evidence this is happening? And frankly, if it is- why isn't the OP following the complaints procedure?

I am a teacher and I use the term non binary because I reject the gender binary.

But in my experience it would be explained to a child, in an age appropriate way, that yes, this person looks like a woman but they want to be called “Mx” and “they”. But if you forget sometimes it’s fine. They are not being ‘gaslit’ or told “no, you idiot, that man with a beard is clearly a woman”

'This person looks like a woman but they want to be called "Mx" ' - Gasligting.

'This person is a woman but they want to be called "Mx" ' - not gaslighting.

Wow,ok. I do feel really sorry for that teacher who is clearly tying himself in knots trying to follow the school’s inclusivity policy and handled it badly. The student shouldn’t have filmed him though- and that’s why he was suspended.

The boy shouting “is it a boy or is it a girl?” is clearly transphobic, not sure what your point is.

The boy is on the spectrum. He hadn't intended offense, by all accounts, but was confused. How on earth is it 'transphobic' to ask whether a person is male or female, what does it even have to do with trans people? Presumably the SC was quite androgynous looking, so it might have been a perfectly rational question, if not one that most people would ask.

Yes, it was rude, but is there no consideration for people who struggle with societal rules and manners? And since when did 'rude' become something we arrested people for?

Where is this 'frenzy', can you point it out, please?

Yet the poster upthread pointed out her experience of children feeling anxious to the point of schools refusal for fear of being told off by this "non binary" male teacher. For a teacher you seem to be remarkably complacent about how effective conditions for learning work in a classroom?
Good teachers always put the needs of the children first, differentiating, ensuring that the weakest are supported and the able children extended. The idea that a teacher would suddenly start disciplining children for calling an evidently male teacher sir demonstrates just how little they're concerned about children and learning. The children are being used to validate their luxury belief.