Non Binary Teachers

[WandaWomblesaurus]

My daughter (older teen) has had a total of three non binary teachers across primary and high school.
All were biologically female.
All went by Mx.

I asked her about her observations of them and anything she noticed in common with them as I was curious about how they have affected her education over the years.

"They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships. A lot of talk about gender as would be expected. Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships."

"They hijack the subjects they are teaching putting gender in. So for example we had a relief teacher in an English class giving us a paper about girls saying they are boys and having mastectomies and we were asked to rewrite it in our own words. I wrote on the paper I didn't agree with it."

"All of them have trans flags, stickers, posters saying TRANS IS BEAUTIFUL. Advertising it as a lifestyle choice basically."

"They try and be charismatic by putting on the nb front of 'coolness' and progressiveness but actually they are all quite awkward and square."

"Clothing wise they still all majorly present as women. They might have a short haircut but they wear dresses and makeup and I don't see how they even look androgynous or are breaking any stereotypes."

"A lot of time in classes is spent trying to imprint their opinions on us and they go off topic. They only try and relate to the girls. They don't have the skills to relate to the boys. A couple of the girls in my classes talk openly about having crushes on these teachers."

"The MX is a big thing, they get very snippy if they aren't MX'd, even by kids who are struggling to understand basic things. The pronouns are always seen as more important than the student."

Curious stuff isn't it?
I can't imagine these teachers having power in schools for much longer.

As I said earlier- if the OP has safeguarding concerns the she should report it to the school. Obviously oversharing about their personal life is a concern, but you are attributing that to the fact that they identify as non-binary.

I don’t believe sweeping statements such as “they all do…” are helpful. In fact that is exactly the kind of language we use as an example when teaching children about stereotypes and prejudice. Also criticising their clothing and calling them “awkward and square” ? It’s quite mean really.

And I have been known to remind students I go by ‘Ms’, not ‘Mrs’ or ‘Miss’. Is that too confusing for them too?!

The derail does show that the TRA movement is all about not liking women standing up for safeguarding and saying no. Always so revealing.

Language police. Women. must. not. speak.

For some of them it will be yes, particularly some SEND students. Why do you think this is important? Most teachers I know get called all sorts and as long as it's not deliberately disrespectful always centre the child's needs.

Lots of teachers get called 'Mum' because that's what children say so much at home. Everyone laughs and moves on to learning.

I struggle to see why an ideology which on the one hand claims sex doesn't matter and can't be acknowledged and that safeguarding around sex is irrelevant (despite all the vast amount of data to the contrary) has such a rigid adherence to forms of address. It's illogical and confusing for children.

I see we've progressed to calling us 'mean' which shows what a weak argument you have. It's not going to work. We say no, you can't stop us talking and on plenty of other sites too, this isn't the only one.

Women are organising to protect children's wellbeing in schools. This is part of that discussion (thanks OP, it's a good thread).

You can't stop us, and the more you try and scold us the more determined it makes us.

We know that children don't learn when anxious / being bullied.
I suppose it's no surprise that the only way for these teachers to impose their niche world view on children is to intimidate and cross boundaries.
Parents need to be challenging this.

The Teachers' Standards clearly state that teachers must ensure that
"personal beliefs are not expressed in ways which exploit pupils’ vulnerability "

The adult behaviour described on here could be defined as "social grooming" - in some cases compelling and in others, encouraging children to adhere to an ideology that the adult is promoting.

The draft guidelines need to be implemented urgently:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

I think this is a case if teachers not having clear guidance.

Teachers are not supposed to try to influence students through airing their personal views.

At the same time though, human rights and equality are accepted areas where teachers are expected to stand up for the right way of thinking (racism is wrong etc). Arguably, promoting the perspective of marginalised groups falls under this (e.g. decolonising the curriculum).

The trouble is that 'trans' can fall into either category depending on your views and there is no really clear guidance on how to navigate this for teachers.

Personally, I think some common sense squares the two perspectives quite easily, but ultimately that's just my opinion and other people think differently.

My daughters teacher is a parent to a male to female trans child.
And I agree with all and recognise all of the above, the push to teach gender ideology to the kids, the displaying of the trans flag, constant talks about sexuality and gender etc.
This stuff has no place in the classroom.

My daughter is extremely gender critical and will be fully supported by me if she ever expresses her "beliefs" in the class, namely that changing sex is impossible and that gender is a human construct.
Bring on the phonecall.

Teachers who push this shit should be sacked.
Where else is pushing your own personal agenda acceptable?

As I said earlier- if the OP has safeguarding concerns the she should report it to the school.

Important to discuss here so other parents are able to recognise specific issues as such and can also complain. Not a reason to report the thread.

Obviously oversharing about their personal life is a concern, but you are attributing that to the fact that they identify as non-binary.

There is a commonality with that issue though. Perhaps 'not all NBs' but there certainly appears to be a need to project these ideas about gender and sexuality in a heightened way which you need to query as being necessary and appropriate. And query why it is so important to the individual to engage children in these concepts.

It's not just teachers, it's in academia, charities, external providers, theatre companies etc.

You can make points about over generalisation and stereotyping and criticism of looks, that's the most unnecessary point, but it's not a reason to shut down debate and this thread.

We used to work with a woman ( in an office, not a school) who was always ‘sharing’ the intimate details of her sex life with her husband, mainly singing the praises of their threesomes with an extra female. It was both tedious and embarrassing.

I asked my most ‘liberal’ colleague what she thought about it. She said ‘ oh, I suppose she is recruiting’.

I think this is a case if teachers not having clear guidance.

Whilst the trans guidelines don't yet exist, There's clear safeguarding guidelines about inappropriate sharing of personal information. And over familiarity. That's what is really concerning. Professional standards aren't being adhered to.

I'm talking about behaviours that are common to these teachers that my daughter has observed through years of education with them. Her observation on clothing etc is quite revealing. That the identity is being used as a glamour.
Any good Hogwarts student would spot it a mile away.

Back to non binary teachers - we are being told they don't have a sex. Or they do have sex but they don't have a gender. So they are a new kind of teacher - a new breed perhaps. What do they have in common? They are non binary. I didn't get a memo from school saying that a new kind of teacher that doesn't have a gender would be teaching their gender beliefs in my child's school.

Sounds a bit Star Trek.
Why can't I talk about this?

With many of our send pupils we've given up on formal names as it gets too complicated.

Most use first names. Some use just your surname, no prefix.

Some children simply can't do pronouns of any description. Everyone is a 'he.' (Most of the pupils are boys.)

Not a cult then

If this was a religious teacher who had posters and badges and wanted to talk about their religion all the time, would you have a problem with it?

Querying over sharing of sexual information and personal information about relationships is transphobic?

Gosh, we really do have a a sacred caste around the sect of non binary

Encouraging children to be critical and enquiring is a very valuable gift.
The accusations of " transphobia" have long lost their impact. Phobias are fears. Questioning an ideology ( a whole set of ideas about how the world works) is not 'phobic'. It is actually quite startling how many young people now mindlessly imbibe, without critical evaluation, such ideas wholesale. University campuses are now keen to assert they are " safe spaces" - rather than spaces of enquiry and challenge.

Encouraging your child to question an ideology is a bad thing?

You do know that you can disagree with an ideology without hating the people who believe in it, don’t you? Or you can even say that some of the practices carried out in the name of that ideology are bad without hating everyone who believes in it.

Our experience is with a male NB teacher*. He was a good, engaging teacher, and the kids liked him. He wasn't militant about the pronouns or if kids called him sir, but was generally referred to as "Mix". When he switched pronouns he also grew his hair and started wearing skirts. Nothing inappropriate for a school but kind of amusing when the female teachers are almost always in trousers.

DS didn't report any inappropriate conversations tho teacher wasn't his form tutor or anything so it's hard to see where it would come up. There were flags. And an inappropriate Allsorts assembly, but I don't know if that was his idea or the head's.

Perhaps the lesson is that good child-centred teachers can continue to be good child-centred teachers regardless of their own belief systems. Whereas teachers who are inclined to be egotistical or controlling can manifest this through gender beliefs too.

I do think this teacher may have contributed to DS and his friends (quietly and politely) thinking gender stuff is daft nonsense. It's not cool any more when your teacher is doing it. And while kids can be kind of androgynous, an adult male in a skirt is obviously an adult male in a skirt.

*I'm going to stick with he on sex based pronouns basis for clarity. "They" sounds like over-generalising. He actually changed pronouns again later so "they" wouldn't be approved by the pronoun police either.

@Coffee473 for a teacher, you seem curiously intolerant of diverse viewpoints. You do know that the 'D' in EDI stands for diversity? We all have different opinions, yours aren't always right and you don't need to report everyone to the authorities just because you disagree with them.

Make a complaint about them. Totally inappropriate and brainwashing

@MimiGC I feel you are deliberately misinterpreting what I have said. If the OP had said “I’m concerned about the behaviour of this particular teacher because it sounds like they are over sharing their personal life/ expressing their political views” that would be one thing. The OP deliberately asked her DD her “observations” of these teachers based on this one shared characteristic and then repeated them using phrases like “they all do this”. Some of the accusations are concerning and I suggested the OP report them. Some are quite personal and offensive “they dress like this/ they act like this”. All of it smacks of over-generalisation, stereotyping and prejudice. Imagine if she had written “My DD has 3 teachers who come from France, she said they all act like this”

I am a feminist and am sympathetic to many of the views expressed on these boards, though I don’t necessarily agree with all of them. I don’t think posts like this are helpful to the debate.

Not wanting your kids to know all about your teacher’s relationships- transphobic?

Not wanting your kids to get mixed up with pronouns, titles - transphobic

Safeguarding children so they are not part of conversation that’s inappropriate for their age - transphobic

Its just transphobic isn’t it. Just BE KIND ladies. After all, the role of a woman (cis of course), is to put aside our fears and concerns, let everyone get on with what they want. We must be kind.

I was called transphobic once, for commenting on instagram “I love this page and it’s celebration of women”. I wasn’t inclusive apparently, even though the page is about women, birth, feminism, periods… it’s just a word that’s bandied about so often, no one can take it seriously.