Non Binary Teachers

[WandaWomblesaurus]

My daughter (older teen) has had a total of three non binary teachers across primary and high school.
All were biologically female.
All went by Mx.

I asked her about her observations of them and anything she noticed in common with them as I was curious about how they have affected her education over the years.

"They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships. A lot of talk about gender as would be expected. Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships."

"They hijack the subjects they are teaching putting gender in. So for example we had a relief teacher in an English class giving us a paper about girls saying they are boys and having mastectomies and we were asked to rewrite it in our own words. I wrote on the paper I didn't agree with it."

"All of them have trans flags, stickers, posters saying TRANS IS BEAUTIFUL. Advertising it as a lifestyle choice basically."

"They try and be charismatic by putting on the nb front of 'coolness' and progressiveness but actually they are all quite awkward and square."

"Clothing wise they still all majorly present as women. They might have a short haircut but they wear dresses and makeup and I don't see how they even look androgynous or are breaking any stereotypes."

"A lot of time in classes is spent trying to imprint their opinions on us and they go off topic. They only try and relate to the girls. They don't have the skills to relate to the boys. A couple of the girls in my classes talk openly about having crushes on these teachers."

"The MX is a big thing, they get very snippy if they aren't MX'd, even by kids who are struggling to understand basic things. The pronouns are always seen as more important than the student."

Curious stuff isn't it?
I can't imagine these teachers having power in schools for much longer.

My children have not had any 'non-binary' teachers, and with a bit of luck they never will!

I would be complaining to the school about the type of inappropriate behaviour described by the OP. Absolutely unacceptable.

Its funny that you have reported this for stereotyping these teachers when the of the new trans ideology is about stereotypes.
When I started teaching one of the main areas was to breakdown stereotypes.
Girls can play football
Girls can be Engineers
Girls can do math, science, DT etc.
And boys can do textiles, food tech, child care etc.

But this has been sidelined into if a girl likes X then she must be a he.
These teachers should not be promoting a trans lifestyle over facts, a teacher is there to teach their subject not preach a doctrine.

But it has to be the right type of EDI. Otherwise its an ism or a phobic.

Giving your child the space to think about whether they believe in gender identity (the idea that we all have one) or not is not transphobic.

There are many parents, myself included, whose children don't have the capacity to apply critical thinking to this. My neurotypical daughter year 8 daughter is getting to the point where she sees it as a belief that some of her friends hold but she doesn't. My autistic daughter (her older sister) is nowhere near that point in her thinking. If she hears a teacher talking about gender identity as if it's real, she will believe it. She also believes in God for the same reason, having been at a primary school which is closely affiliated with the school. I want to give my children the space to safely form their own beliefs. There is nothing safe about an environment which pushes gender identity as a truth to autistic children, like my daughter, who may perceive their confusion about their changing body (and any sensory issues associated with breast development and periods) as a sign that they are in the wrong body.
Children don't go to school to have beliefs pushed on them.
As an atheist, it's my choice to accept that the primary school may "indoctrinate" my children in to the Christian faith because I see it as low risk. But I won't accept my children being indoctrinated in to gender identity belief. Thanks to Maya Forstater's tribunal, and latterly Rachel Meade's and Jo Phoenix's, I can express this without it being considered as "transphobia".

I think transactivism needs to be formally recognised as a religion, or as least as a political movement, and staff reminded that it is not permitted to use class time to attempt to recruit children into their religion/politics.

If conversion therapy does get banmed it’ll be interesting to see whether activists still feel as confident about actively trying to persuade children into their club.

This.

And this:

"Children don't go to school to have beliefs pushed on them"

The "they" is referring to three specific non-binary teachers that the OP's daughter is talking about, not all non-binary people or even all non binary teachers.
She has used the phrase "they all" because there are three of them. If there had been two she would have said 'They both".

Stop looking for offence where there is none.

The thing is, this is why I don't think it's about belief. It's not about trans either. These women aren't trans, they don't have clinically treated dysphoria.

It's a victim hood trend that is all about sexist identities and obsessions with categories, sexualities and blurring boundaries.

It has no place in school. Most Children are savvy and recognise these people. Unfortunately some aren't and are vulnerable to being exploited.

Clearly the suggestion something should be done about this thread was not taken up by MN. It is the censoring of parents sharing points like this which is what some of the trans lobby does in shouting people down, protesting at universities so no one can be heard - it is the usual silencing of women; Yet we will not be silenced and the courts in the 3 cases someone mentioned just above illustrate who often the law now is on the side of women in an employment context where they express perfectly reasonable views but are then sacked.

The tide is turning in favour of fairness and proper equality and I hope this keeps up as we do not want children to suffer

I really hope you don't teach kids with SEN. My son is 21 and has learning disabilities and still mixes up pronouns - calling people it as well as he or she. Obviously I correct him, but he doesn't do it deliberately and it just doesn't sink in as he does it repeatedly.

Why tf are these teachers sharing details of relationships with their students? Two of my teachers got married when I was at school. The first we knew of their relationship was when Miss A returned after the summer holiday as Mrs B. We didn't need to know anything more, it was none of our business (and I'm quite sure we would have been grossed out at the thought of such old people - actually only in their 20s! - having sex etc)

I guess it means kids will think being non binary is pathetic, which it is. Which can only be a good thing.

(I'm sitting here with my short hair, mens hoody, preparing to do DIY. I am the most non binary ever, look at me everyone, I'm so different and special and Not Like Those Other Women! )

You've reported a parent talking anonymously about what their child's perception of certain anonymous teachers is? To what end?

My kid has a 'non binary' teacher who gets called Mx. He/they/whatever is excellent at the job and my kid is happy so I don't care. But that wouldn't have made for a very exciting post I guess.

@ArabellaScott if you read my subsequent posts I think I have explained myself pretty clearly
@WotNoUserName i teach in a mainstream secondary, so come across plenty of SEN students. And I don’t beat them with a stick if they get it wrong, but when they write my name on a book etc I remind them it is Ms, not Mrs or Miss, and if they ask why, I explain. Quite amusing I’m getting flamed for that on the feminist board!

Assuming he's also keeping his belief in gender identity out of the classroom, this is great to hear.

The title of "Mx" for a male or female is interesting. In itself, it doesn't require a belief in gender identity. It simply shows a preference for a title that is not sex-specific. In a similar way that the title "Ms" allows women to avoid differentiating between being married or single. There will be some SEN or other children that aren't able to process this, as per the examples above, but I fully agree that it's no big deal if the teacher doesn't make it so.

It crosses the line in to enforced belief in gender identity when it's accompanied by the pronoun "they". At this point, it's forcing a child in class to declare a belief that they don't necessarily hold. It will be obvious, in the majority of cases, to the children whether the teacher is male or female. If it's not obvious, or the child is confused by the "Mx" title, or scared about what they are "allowed" to say, this is an issue. It should always be OK for a child to be able to refer to a teacher by their sex-based pronouns.

From the very anecdotal few posts on this thread, male NB teachers appear to be better at not crossing boundaries around discussions of sexuality and relationships with pupils. Because i think it would be noted more readily and seen as more creepy by female pupils.

I'm noting it as an issue that it is another way that gender ideology dismantles boundaries. When women are delivering the messages it comes across less harmful than men. It's why mermaids has female front facing staff, including transmen. No trans women.

The OP's daughter has noted some really relevant issues with these teachers around boundaries and appropriateness.

I do think it's possible separate out unnecessary judgments about appearance but not about behaviour. Though, the observations about appearance communicate a hypocrisy to the pupils (still dressing in gender conforming ways) which is why they're noticing them I assume.

Just to be sure, this is one student's opinion of 3 individuals?

Has one of the individuals been asked to comment on 3 students, referring to the 3 as, "They all..."

Go ahead and ask them. Start a thread that you're interested in.

"A lot of time in classes is spent trying to imprint their opinions on us and they go off topic.

OP, your daughter's descriptions remind me of the worst A-level teacher I ever had, who diverted all subject discussions to his opinion of US foreign policy. It's exactly the same pattern of behaviour, except that gender is the teacher's obsession, rather than any political party. It later turned out that he'd been having a sexual relationship with a girl in his GCSE resit class. She was 18 and it was legal, but in no way was it an ethical state of affairs. Even for an 18 year old, she was malleable and easily manipulated.

I don't think he'd get away with inserting his obsession with American politics into every single class today, but would he be able to behave the same way, only focusing on gender instead?

I'm a teacher. I don't think it's inappropriate. I think it's concerning what her daughter is saying.

Me too. It's inappropriate and, frankly, immature. This obsession with self-validation and making everything about you and your identity is teenage behaviour tbh.

They won't have this at private school, that's for sure.

What a dire time to be alive. We have passed the point of peak comfort as humans and literally have nothing to do. This is the state you end up in.

We need some real problems, I'd actually welcome some sort of heavy global crisis so people have real things to worry about.

It's not so much the title. It's the requirement that children should deny the reality of their own eyes - ie that a woman is in fact something else.

This naturally leads on to age inappropriate areas around sex and sexuality.

It also risks damaging children's neurological development. The ability to name the observed world around them and be confident that the object is as named, is a crucial part of brain development.

Insisting that children partake in a lie by forced compliance, and ignore accurate visual evidence, is also discriminatory against children who may have an innate difficulty in complying with the lie e.g. children on the autism spectrum, neurodivergent children, children with learning difficulties, children with speech difficulties and children whose first language is not English.

Forgot to add:
The lines are also blurry when only the title is used i.e. where no surname is added and children simply speak to or about their teacher using the title on its own. In secondary schools it's generally just "Sir" for all men and "Miss" for all women. There's a whole extra conversation around how annoying this is, given "Sir" sounds like reverance and "Miss" sounds like subordination. However, it prevails (presumably) because it simplifies things for children. My children have no idea whether their female teachers are a Miss, a Mrs or a Ms because to them all female teachers are "Miss". They just add a surname when the context requires it. I do suggest to them that it might be polite to find out but neither they nor the teachers seem to think it's important.
If men/women who identify as non-binary insist on being called "Mx" rather than "Sir"/"Miss" this is where it crosses the line yet again.

I wonder what happens if a teacher insists that "I am not Sir, I Mr Smith to you". If that's OK, then logically "I am not Sir, I am Mx to you" is OK too. But insisting on the pronoun "they" is on the other side of the line.

This is probably something schools need to think about when considering the new guidance, and perhaps something that the government could address when they release the final version.

If that was aimed at me, then I am IMMENSELY PROUD that my daughter knows what a woman is, knows what biology is, stands up for the rights of women and girls and is not a weak feeble minded handmaiden who rolls over and acquiesces to the rights of confused males over the hard won rights of women and girls.

"Transphobia" is not standing up for reality and womens rights.

@CantDealwithChristmas I think that argument is quite flimsy to be honest. Children are adaptable in their very nature and they can understand that if someone wants to be known as X then that is what they should call them. And, despite the protestations to the contrary, I have never come across a teacher who would chastise a student for a genuine mistake, they would just remind them.

Part of school is preparing children for the outside world. They will come across trans/non binary people in their life. Most likely in their peer group. If a child in their class decided to identify as trans/non-binary would you instruct your child to ignore their chosen pronouns?

Before I get shouted down, I am not a TRA, I believe in women only spaces, women only sports etc etc. I am not trying to “silence women” 🙄 But I also stand by what I said, to speak about non-binary people in such negative terms, framing it as “they all act this way/ they are trying to indoctrinate our children” is not helpful to the debate.

Are you seriously now comparing choosing to use certain pronouns among friends and being compelled to use them by a person of authority?