Non Binary Teachers

[WandaWomblesaurus]

My daughter (older teen) has had a total of three non binary teachers across primary and high school.
All were biologically female.
All went by Mx.

I asked her about her observations of them and anything she noticed in common with them as I was curious about how they have affected her education over the years.

"They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships. A lot of talk about gender as would be expected. Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships."

"They hijack the subjects they are teaching putting gender in. So for example we had a relief teacher in an English class giving us a paper about girls saying they are boys and having mastectomies and we were asked to rewrite it in our own words. I wrote on the paper I didn't agree with it."

"All of them have trans flags, stickers, posters saying TRANS IS BEAUTIFUL. Advertising it as a lifestyle choice basically."

"They try and be charismatic by putting on the nb front of 'coolness' and progressiveness but actually they are all quite awkward and square."

"Clothing wise they still all majorly present as women. They might have a short haircut but they wear dresses and makeup and I don't see how they even look androgynous or are breaking any stereotypes."

"A lot of time in classes is spent trying to imprint their opinions on us and they go off topic. They only try and relate to the girls. They don't have the skills to relate to the boys. A couple of the girls in my classes talk openly about having crushes on these teachers."

"The MX is a big thing, they get very snippy if they aren't MX'd, even by kids who are struggling to understand basic things. The pronouns are always seen as more important than the student."

Curious stuff isn't it?
I can't imagine these teachers having power in schools for much longer.

All of that is bad, but children are being gaslit into having to validate adult identity crises. I think that is abuse.

@WandaWomblesaurus

My original post was about the behaviours that my daughter who has experienced it all first hand had observed amongst a particular type of trans activist teacher. She feels this behaviour has impacted her education in several ways - including the ways that the girls she knows now talk about their bodies - including hating their breasts.

Why would the girls hate their breasts? You said this:

"Clothing wise they still all majorly present as women. They might have a short haircut but they wear dresses and makeup and I don't see how they even look androgynous or are breaking any stereotypes ...^
^
"This is pretty evident. These are not teachers presenting in androgynous ways. They are biological women, presenting as women, demanding that they are not seen or addressed as women, by CHILDREN."

If the teachers present as women, how does that translate to students hating their breasts?

@WandaWomblesaurus
you said one of your daughter’s NB teachers was in primary education. But that they all spoke inappropriately about their personal lives. When did you learn about this happening in primary school? And what did you do subsequently? At primary school this is a red flag and needs to be raised.

You also said these teachers have negatively impacted your daughter’s education in several ways. Could you articulate how these teachers have made your daughter and her friends hate their breasts and in what other ways have they negatively impacted your daughter’s education? She described them as non-charismatic which generally means less able to influence (ie not a Jean Brodie type).

As others have asked, if you feel the teachers have been frequently overstepping the mark and are acting as trans activists what have you done? Have you asked for dates, times and quotes? Have you spoken to other parents to verify what your daughter has told you? Have you spoken to the school?

Safeguarding is all about flushing out those individuals with malintent and nothing about generalising groups or classes of people based on statistics.

@TheHoover

You've made excellent points to follow up on regarding specifc questions to ask about these teachers.

However: Safeguarding is all about flushing out those individuals with malintent and nothing about generalising groups or classes of people based on statistics.

Under normal circumstances I'd agree with this. It's obviously discriminatory to assume that someone, for example, who is of a particular religion, is tarred by the same brush as abusers of the same religion. And all examples of unprofessionalism should be challenged. At the same time we have had multiple instances of organised religious groups and cultural communities (also scouting, sports coaches) committing csa unchallenged due to similar concerns and fgm training does ask that we notice if girls are being taken away on longer holidays abroad.

The difference is that NB isn't a religion nor a recognised characteristic. But what is more concerning is that there are multiple safeguarding issues detailed surrounding the basis of the idea of gender identity, which is very closely linked to ideas around sexuality and "sex positivity."

Fwr is littered with the examples of how ideas that you have a gender identity leads to physical harm via surgical interventions, binding etc. Examples of grooming. Inappropriate behaviour by adults offering to chat to teens and keep secrets from parents.

Non binary doesn't exist as a "thing" without any of these links. You are automatically part of the current queer culture that sees bdsm as normalised on pride parades.

So in this instance parents and schools have valid reasons to be extra vigilant. In the absence of firm guidance and this being mentioned in KCSIE, which it isn't. It's a massive loophole.

Safeguarding is also about the "worst case scenarios" whereby potential safeguarding issues are generalised and there are details on how we are going to ensure it doesn't get that far.

I feel very sorry for the teachers who think it's all a ok as they're most likely very naive and have been persuaded it's a Good Thing ™ by others around them. So it is appropriate to call it out so that they can adjust their behaviour and have a decent career.

You also said these teachers have negatively impacted your daughter’s education in several ways. Could you articulate how these teachers have made your daughter and her friends hate their breasts and in what other ways have they negatively impacted your daughter’s education?

The teachers don't need to have said a single word.

Teens have phone and can google. The label of non binary for women can = breast binding and mastectomies.

We know how quickly teen girls can latch onto an idea about their bodies. Especially if also grappling with other self perception issues and the impact of a hyper sexualised society and related pressures.

It's the very concept of NB that is the issue in schools, particularly for girls.

For boys it gives them a free pass to cross boundaries.

Whatever your views on gender you are fuelling stereotypes

But surely you understand that ‘non-binary’ means a rock-solid belief in sex stereotypes? Anyone who identifies as non-binary is expressing the belief that eg real women can’t play rugby and real men can’t wear pink etc.

The teachers aren't just standing at the front of the class like silent clothes-horses, are they?

On the last page, WarriorN already picked out some relevant paragraphs.

They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships.

A lot of talk about gender as would be expected.

Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships

As it happens I know some female non-binaries. Over the years, there have been a lot of conversations about how much they hate their breasts, and to what extent this might be an intrinsic part of being non-binary. Fine to share all those thoughts with a friend, but it would be rather less fine to share that with much younger teenage girls who all have their own personal issues to contend with.

The phrase "female non binaries" always makes me laugh. It's such a self defeating movement.

@NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision

*The teachers aren't just standing at the front of the class like silent clothes-horses, are they?

On the last page, WarriorN already picked out some relevant paragraphs.
*
^*They all try too hard to connect with their students in an inappropriately informal way, talking a lot about personal life and relationships.

A lot of talk about gender as would be expected.

Sharing stuff about their own personal lives and relationships to the class and asking us about our relationships*^

I'm not sure these interactions would lead to female students "hating their breasts", though. Particularly if the students in question didn't find the teachers inspiring or interesting in any way - in fact, in the OP's first post, it would seem they find them tedious.

I'm not sure these interactions would lead to female students "hating their breasts", though. Particularly if the students in question didn't find the teachers inspiring or interesting in any way - in fact, in the OP's first post, it would seem they find them tedious.

It's the concept of non binary as presented to us by social media, YouTube and famous tv / film stars. The link is there, it's how NB is interpreted on a wider scale. Even healthline has info for Nb top surgery

www.healthline.com/health/transgender/non-binary-top-surgery

"What is non binary" brought up this on tiktok, basically Nb is part of a gender journey, go micro dose testosterone. As if it's like Alice in wonderland eat this, drink this to shift on a sliding scale.

www.tiktok.com/channel/am-i-non-binary

('Thatguygatteo')

The OP's daughter finds them tedious. Other reactions may vary. If you read the OP, you will see this quote:

They only try and relate to the girls. They don't have the skills to relate to the boys. A couple of the girls in my classes talk openly about having crushes on these teachers.

Earlier on in this thread, I said that the teachers' behaviour reminded me of the worst teacher I have ever had, who diverted all lessons to his own monomania (US foreign policy and America's use of its status as a world power). I found him incredibly tedious. He was having a sexual relationship with an 18 year old in another class, so we may guess my reaction was not universal.

I agree - non binary means belief in sex stereotypes. Obviously there ARE very girly girls and women who are the opposite, but women don't need to call themselves it (or whatever) rather than he or she to assert their preference.
Eg I don't wear make up and as a child and teenager was not keen on dresses as I prefer other things but I never felt that made me non binary or not a woman or trans or anything like that.

I agree with the comment above "If there were no stereotypes there'd be nothing to 'trans' to or away from."