Confused on the concept of non binary

[ireallycantthinkofaname]

Please be nice, i am not the sharpest knife in the box under normal circumstances and I'm running on about 6 hrs sleep over the past week at the minute.....

But something I've been trying and failing to understand re. the concept of 'non binary' in the 'gender movement' (or whatever it is/ought to be called) is that on the one hand, people who subscribe to that philosophy are saying they reject the traditional idea of explicit male/femaleness (because if "trans women are women" then they have swapped for instance). But then if you have 'non binary' individuals isn't that pretty much saying oh yes, actually there is a binary - and some people don't subscribe to it?

I do acknowledge sex =/= gender but not all NB people are intersex/have DSD

<<thoroughly discombobulated>>

I know many women who are feminists, but are gender conforming. I do not agree that you must be gender nonconforming to be a feminist. Most of MN is gender conforming. Look at the talk topics if you have any doubts.

Nah, that describes everyone.

In the 1980's it was referred to as gender queer.

In First Nations culture Two Spirit people have always been around. We had ceremonies for them and they were very respected in our culture.

It's not a new concept but one that has definitely increased in popularity given the social media trend.

May I ask how you came by knowing how all 8 billion people feel?

I'm gender conforming and a feminist. I didn't realize we were a rare breed.

It's a pretty silly concept.
I think the non conformity idea appeals to some people initially, and once they've announced that as their identity, it's probably more difficult to row back when the realisation hits that all people are non confirming to some degree and there's nothing special or different about being NB.

"In the 80s it was referred to as genderqueer".

No it bloody wasn't. It really, really wasn't.

A lot of people here seem to be incapable of understanding the word “identity” (“the fact of being, or feeling that you are, a particular type of person”).

If someone says they are nonbinary / have a nonbinary identity, it means they have a sense of being both male and female.

No more complicated than that, and nothing to do with gender stereotypes.

It can be observed how people behave. Flip this the other way around, I have never heard someone who is non-binary describe themselves in a way that is not shared by many other people who don’t describe themselves as non-binary, like me. So what makes their feelings make them non-binary and the same feelings in me and others not non-binary?

Firstly, MN is for women, not feminists.

Secondly, what way do you think the talk topics here are gender conforming?

I don’t consider being a mother to be gender conforming- it’s a biological function, nothing to do with gender.

I suppose in their decision to acknowledge it and not feeling comfortable being labeled one or the other.

Do you feel comfortable being referred to as a woman? If you do, than you don't share the same experience as they do.

If OP is genuinely curious she should be asking people who identify as NB and not women on here.

Something that ISN'T binary is conformity. There aren't 2 sets of people, the ones who conform to every gender expectation and the ones who conform to none. Everyone is in the middle somewhere.

Surely non binary is neither male nor female, something else? If they are both then that demands a binary

and, and, what even is gender if it’s not stereotypes?

I do not, but it is not me the one claiming that 'my' feeling/identity is 'different'!
Different to what?

May I ask how you were able to observe the behaviour of all 8 billion people and what your qualifications are for matching behaviour to gender identity across countless cultures? Let me know when you are ready to admit you only know what you feel plus a few who are close to you. Or how less than 1 in a billion people feel.

Why?
In closet vs out of closet
Miscommunication, failure of language
The sum is greater than the parts

Why is this topic creating so much antagonism?..
The use of language changes all the time.
NB in short means that an individual,male or female,does not feel the need to confirm to the current societal norms of what it means to be a male or a female..
They may feel it inside and not need to express it.They may wear clothing to express how they feel or they may act 'feminie' one day or 'masculine" another.
Ultimately,it is their choice.
To say that you just are a man or a woman is easy if that's how you feel.
It is not so easy for NB people.

If someone says they are nonbinary / have a nonbinary identity, it means they have a sense of being both male and female.

No more complicated than that, and nothing to do with gender stereotypes

What are they basing this "sense of being both male and female" on exactly then? Also there are "non binary" people who claim to feel neither.

I’m not claiming that my identity is different? I am posting the fact that people, living, breathing, human beings with brains have said that they feel different from other human beings. Which is not some sort of Earth shattering new idea. We have known forever and a day that everyone doesn’t feel the same as everyone else.

It's 100% based on toxic sexist stereotypes.

‘Anything invented, thought or made by a human is made up.’

but of course our physical bodies are not ‘ made up ‘ , they exist in real time, in these dimensions. If they were ‘made up’, there would be no need for the ingestion of hormones or the surgical excision of the awkward unwanted sexual characteristics and genitalia. People could just ‘make up’ a different form and hey presto! They would BE the other sex.

I suppose if you were skilled and practiced you could transform yourself at will, Tuesdays and Thursday I will just become ‘male’. Or I suppose, a kangaroo.

Your argument is circular, and therefore profoundly flawed.

I’m not comfortable being a woman, it’s a pain in the arse. Sadly it is what it is. Therefore I’m referred to as one.

Since when has being comfortable been anything to do with it? I’m not comfortable being called fat. Again, it is what it is.

Huh?

I thought we were supposed yo grow out of magical thinking aged about ten.

Non binary is bollocks

You need to go back to the word “identity” again. A sense of being British isn’t the same thing as stereotypes of British people. If you can’t understand the difference between thinking you are British, and stereotypes of British people, you have no chance of understanding the difference between thinking you are female and the stereotype that female people like pink. Sometimes nonbinary does include people who feel no particular sense of being male or female, that’s true though.