Confused on the concept of non binary

[ireallycantthinkofaname]

Please be nice, i am not the sharpest knife in the box under normal circumstances and I'm running on about 6 hrs sleep over the past week at the minute.....

But something I've been trying and failing to understand re. the concept of 'non binary' in the 'gender movement' (or whatever it is/ought to be called) is that on the one hand, people who subscribe to that philosophy are saying they reject the traditional idea of explicit male/femaleness (because if "trans women are women" then they have swapped for instance). But then if you have 'non binary' individuals isn't that pretty much saying oh yes, actually there is a binary - and some people don't subscribe to it?

I do acknowledge sex =/= gender but not all NB people are intersex/have DSD

<<thoroughly discombobulated>>

I am going to find a forum/fb group for NB and ask there as well FWIW because I genuinely don't get it. (Recommendations welcome, trying to get a balanced view from both 'sides' of the debate as it were).

I was asked today if I was NB and it got me thinking that I don't really get it.

Same as it made me realise when I think 'gender' in relation to myself I don't really think of anything at all.

So everyone else who feels the same as how non-binary people describe themselves is just comfortable? Or do you mean more accurately not bothered by accurate labels? My sex is what it is. So is that of those who say they’re non-binary. Inner feelings the same. So it’s about comfort with reality?

Secondly, what way do you think the talk topics here are gender conforming?
Just look at them. Weight loss, royal family, feminism, horses, style & beauty, cooking, arts & crafts, housekeeping,

And think what is missing-Roman Empire, formula one, football, D&D, combat video games,

No that won’t do. Unless you think that awful citizenship test is to do with Britishness?

British people have British citizenship either by birth or acquiring it later. How I feel has nothing to do with it. How can you feel British?

Does it mean drawn to fish and chips, cos I admit I am? And quite fond of warm flat beer, for that matter.

have said that they feel different from other human beings

Again - different from what?

You asked if I knew how the 8b people in the world feel. No, I do not. No one does. Same for NB people.

I observe people all over the world. I see men in skirt like clothing in other cultures. Are they all non-binary?

So I am actually non-binary but in the closet? I’ve heard it all now.

There isn't a single First Nations culture. The clue's in the plural - many nations, many cultures. Only a few of which (generally the most sexist ones) had any sort of two spirit concept.

And in the 80s it was gender bending, not gender queer. Which was a very different thing - a conscious messing with stereotypes, not a denial of reality.

British is a common culture and identity, which yes can be adopted as well as born into. You wouldn’t notice how you are different from others if you only live in Britain.

NB means they don't feel male or female. Your friend just sounds like a feminine man.

The fact you have to ask that question answers my question as it means that you have no qualifications and cannot assess people’s gender identity anywhere in the world through your personal observation.

NB people know they feel different, as do many other people with other differences.

I’ll give you weight loss, style and beauty and feminism. Horses are a bit teenaged girl, but once into adulthood pretty ungendered surely?
And you can have Roman Empire too, who even knew that was a thing until recently.

Housekeeping is just a function that has to be done. Bugger that as being gendered female! Fucking hell.
We have a gamers‘ area here.
We have property, DIY, which might be more generally coded male.

But it’s a load of bollocks. MN isn’t feminine gender conforming. It’s Predominantly female but why would that…

Oh God I haven’t got time for this. I’m so pissed off you think we talk about housework because we’re women and therefore enjoy it.

Everyone who believes they have a gender identity can only declare what they believe their gender identity to be by describing it. But everyone who declares a non-binary gender identity describes a personality that is shared by many others who do not believe in gender identity. So what makes their description of themselves indicative of a particular gender identity and not just a description of their personality?

Is it anything other than a personal belief it means gender identity?

I'm Canadian and my bio dad was Cree. I should have specified Canadian and Native American cultures.

Do you believe our culture to be more sexist than others?

Ah, I’ve just identified my most gender conforming quality- the ability to recognise when men are talking bollocks.

There's football here. And history, investing, tattoos, gaming, weightlifting ...

But they’re not different. That’s the point. They’re the same as the rest of us, they just believe it means something different.

I don't understand it completely either, but I'm not sure it matters at the end of the day if I understand it.

Are you wondering if you might be nonbinary?

How do they know how other people feel?

@ireallycantthinkofaname DSD's have nothing to do with at all. Infact the DSD/VSD (not intersex it's considered offensive by the community) community have repeatedly asked stonewall and other trans groups to stop using their medical conditions as some kind of gotcha, especially as it has been proven that there's no higher instances of DSD/VSD in the trans community than in the general population.

@NotBadConsidering whaaaaaat do your words mean please?

"It can be observed how people behave. Flip this the other way around, I have never heard someone who is non-binary describe themselves in a way that is not shared by many other people who don’t describe themselves as non-binary, like me. So what makes their feelings make them non-binary and the same feelings in me and others not non-binary?"

None of that makes sense to me - can you articulate it in a way it's clearer please so we can understand?

Back to square one then.
NB is a label for people who feel special.

I’ve made my peace with the term non-binary by understanding that when someone tells me they are non-binary, they’re not telling me WHO they are but HOW they FEEL. Because it is absolutely impossible to not be either a man or a woman or, be somewhere in between or nowhere at all.

So the WOMAN in front of me who tells me they’re non-binary, is telling me they don’t like being SEEN as a woman but basically understands they can never be a man - so they feel a bit ‘meh’ aka non-binary. And vice versa if it’s a man professing to be non-binary.

So all I can do is think to myself - oh you feel a bit ‘meh’ about your sex? Good to know, let’s move on shall we?

So pretty much everyone? or at least a vast number of people? 'coming out' as ordinary strikes me as very odd.

But I haven’t only lived in Britain. I lived in Asia for a while- the most obvious difference, after language, was size. I was a towering giant. I lived in Australia too. Both places had a different lifestyle.
There’s nothing innate about nationality though- it’s just a function of where you were born/where you live.

The young man who ‘felt Korean’ was misguided.

You’re confused. NB isn’t about feeling special.