Insistent on they/them

[chipmugs]

Name changed.

I play a team contact sport. It's a women's team and we enter in the women's league. Two players on our team that I know of are transwomen. One post-operative and one I don't know as she hasn't been around very long. Some other players are, I think, calling themselves non-binary but are obviously at least to me female.

Another player, a female, recently announced at the end of training that they'd noticed people misgendering others at practice and saying we mustn't do this, it will be called out as we are an inclusive club. During training and practice we should all be "they/them". I'm almost certain she meant that someone has said "she" referring to non-binary players. I don't think anyone has referred to the trans players as "he", I'm fairly sure of that.

I don't want to be policed in this way. It's a women's league. The transwomen are spoken about with female pronouns. If you are a female with issues surrounding being described with female pronouns then maybe this isn't the club for you. I am considering saying I want to be referred to only as she/her to see what would happen if I did.

What would you do in this situation?

Please don't tell me I shouldn't accept a place on a team with trans women because there aren't many opportunities for me to play sport and although I'm not keen on it I'm cowardly and not ready to lose something I love.

If someone referred to me as they/them I would literally yell at them - I can't be the only one?!

I've only ever heard someone use 'they/them' IRL to take the piss out of the whole ideology.

Maybe I just hang out in terfy circles.

@dadjoke has actually raised an interesting point. The case indicates that deliberately misgendering a transgender person is in this case harassment (obviously in the context of work) so does this apply for people who are not trans. If someone has asked to be referred to as she/her and someone (as in this situation) continues to refer to the person as they/them could that be considered harassment too?

They are mis-gendering YOU. Make that statement over and over again, don't even mention the dude-bro's on your team. It is literally violence to be mis-gendered, don'tchaknow?

Tell her they are to refer to you as she otherwise it will be misgendering according to their own ideology.

Sounds insufferable OP - the kind of place that will kick you out if you are found to be a witch.

How can misgendering be harassment when you only use he/she when talking about the person to someone else? I mean I see that is has been considered harassment but really?? In meetings I don't really say "He/She" about people when talking in front of them, I use their names as I thought it was generally considered rude to say "he/she" about someone in front of them anyway 😂 ("Who is 'she'? The cat's mother?")

For an easy life and to carry on doing the sport I'd let this one go. Sure it bleeds femaleness out of language and sets up a culture of shaming but isn't that there already? I think you've lost the space ages ago. Unless you're up for challenging it of course. Would you have allies? Can you afford the stress?

I'm sorry, it sounds like a pile of crap.

In that situation I would gently explain that sometimes people get it wrong, but that we are all trying.

Yeah my guess too.

It's horrendous. It's such a dangerous sport anyway last thing a womens contact sport needs is a man hip checking women on skates.

It's so 'right on' though it's gone full circle and is no longer a women's sport/ social circle.

I suspect they infiltrated derby as the men love wearing fishnets and hot pants and makeup.

Which would mean the person expecting universal they/them is breaking the law by harassing the others. And, of course, using opposite sex pronouns is also misgendering.

I'm sorry OP, I'd just find a different sport. The risk of injury is aggravated and the teammates sound tedious. 1 or 2 transwomen on every team seems rather disproportionate too even if they are allowed to play with women.

This thread shows what a disaster women's rights are encountering these days. OP, I get that you enjoy this sport but why are you putting up with this shit?!

I have been in this situation and just said that compelled speech is bullying. And that I use sex based speech - and will avoid using any at all if someone will have a toddler tantrum if ‘genocided by pronoun’.

I’m too long in the tooth to play silly buggers.

This is a tricky one. Some protected characteristics apply to everyone (sex, race for example) whereas others only apply to some people (gender reassignment, disability). So it's possible that while misgendering a non-transgender person could be rude but not per se constitute harassment. IANAL, though.

@Alltheprettyseahorses talking about a third person in their presence is not at all unusual - I've seen it frequently in medical situations, at hotel receptions and other places and in casual conversations.

If I was in your shoes, I would be sending an anonymous but specific case-study of my experience to Sex Matters, Fair Play for Women and the sport's governing body.

WTAF??? if trans people are 0.1% of the population, how are there 2 transwomen in one team?
Do they both have GRCs? If not, are they even eligible for your team?
Have there been more, less or the same amount of injuries since they joined?
Have you won more contests?
Have women left the team in greater numbers?
Do you have trouble recruiting players? Has that always been the case?
What are the changing room arrangements?
Have your insurers been notified of the two male-bodied people on your team?
Do you let women competing against you that they will be playing against male-bodied people?

This sounds seriously fucked up.

Jesus.

After a lifetime of being called a bitch, slag, whore, cunt and putting up with being groped and that's just for starters ...(by men btw)

Yet some people are so precious and vulnerable to harm they could accuse me of harassment if I genuinely accidentally misgender them.

What a great time to be a woman the vagina kind that is

Sorry OP to derail but I'm so pissed off with this absolute fucking nonsense

Sending you solidarity x

Can't agree. If women aren't prepared to stand up for women the hard earned gains made will continue to be eroded. Never believe it couldn't happen. It can and it is. Just look around the world.

Good for you! May I ask how it went down?

Laughter or shocked silence. I find of accompanies by a stern (mummy) stare it works best.

By playing alongside them on a woman's team you are aiding and abetting h men playing fancy dress.

I wouldn't blame the OP. She is just taking her only opportunity to play a sport that she loves. Why should she have to stop? It's the TW who should not be there - they have the option of a male team. It's also the sport governing body that should bite the bullet and sort this out. Sorry you're going through this OP.

By calling everyone "they/them" they're misgendering all the "she/her" and "he/him" in the club....

Point that out.

It's not fair that your only opportunity is on this team. I can see why you don't want to give it up. Why should you lose all your sport due to males...

Yeah it's not right...but it's easy to say give up when it's not you giving up. Good luck. I think staying and gentle nudges from the inside with "innocent " questions might also contribute to change.

This sounds like the best and safest compromise. Obviously confusing to use the plural when you mean one person, so people will have to keep clarifying who they mean. It hinders communication, but you have to accept that when pandering is more important.

But really, I hope the team can discuss this and have a chance to see if others are prepared to say No if they feel they have enough support.

Tricky situation. Don’t give up the sport you love, OP.

yes they/them can be confusing if you're unaccustomed to it. Example from a recent conversation with the mum of a they/themmer "J went down to the butchers and they couldn't buy any sausages." What? Why is the butcher buying sausages?

I’d be out of there as soon as they let males into the women’s team to be honest. Mixed sex contact sport sounds like a recipe for disaster.