Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 7

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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[email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

@Tinysoxxx to see it you need to strip out all the 'nofollow' etc clutter and just use the actual link.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210622141553/www.lse.ac.uk/gender/news/june-2021/Statement-of-Solidarity-with-Open-University-Staff-and-Postgraduate-Research-Students

Also surprised there has been no MSM on this case - given the farcical nature of the evidence (and changed phones & WhatsApp groups) from the OU, Hadley Freeman could have matched her Icarus article (and then some)!

Could also highlight how odd that the OU witnesses were so keen to support their T & NB colleagues (ad nauseam) and yet seemed as keen to throw other colleagues under the bus to the wolves (wasn’t me Gov - it was Steve and Dave wot did it).

Good. Appeal judgements are the ones that set precedent that protects the rest of us.

Thanks. That makes sense.

Having found the judgement and skimmed through part of it, I can see that the fundamental problem was that the decision makers didn't bother with a fair process at all. They decided he was a troublemaker, and they wanted to get rid of him in a way that sent a message to others that his behaviour was unacceptable. They didn't even consider the possibility that his complaints might be justified.

My two guilty pleasures.

I'm afraid that doesn't set grounds for an appeal. An appeal is only possible if the tribunal gets the law wrong, or they don't apply the correct law, or they don't run the process correctly (e.g. admitting evidence that should have been excluded, or excluding evidence that should have been admitted), or their decision is not one that was available to them on the evidence, or the tribunal was unfairly biased.

A witness making statements under oath that contradict their witness statement is not grounds for appeal. It may, however, be grounds for the tribunal to conclude that the witness is unreliable.

Apologies to interrupt now it’s started. That link worked for me once but I went back to have a proper look and the archive link didn’t show the letter anymore. That’s what I meant.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210622141553/www.lse.ac.uk/gender/news/june-2021/Statement-of-Solidarity-with-Open-University-Staff-and-Postgraduate-Research-Students" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20210622141553/www.lse.ac.uk/gender/news/june-2021/Statement-of-Solidarity-with-Open-University-Staff-and-Postgraduate-Research-Students
This works @Tinysoxxx

Click on the web archive in the white box at the bottom.

Or copy the link (without surrounding code) and paste it into your browser. Clicking on it gives me a 500 error, but copy & paste works.

Ta-da thank you everyone. Screenshotted it too now 😂. Twas weird I got through once before on the old link then it said only internal people could read it! Thank you for posting another link.

Ironic they accuse the GCRN as being anti-intellectual!!!

Be fair - he assembles a pretty impressive bundle (allegedly).

And a nice book, too, it seems. Thank you for the link @Ameanstreakamilewide - I'm sure that will soon be in every lawyer's library. They will need a bit of light relief at the end of a hard day barristering.

From the LSE letter

framing “sex” as immutable, binary, and essentialist

Why is sex in quotation marks - do they REALLY think it's a made up thing?

IANAL and have just skim read the documents, but the impression I got was that the claimant's employers likely considered having to pay a percentage of costs etc as money well spent to be rid. (Claimant - constructive dismissal - had apparently attempted to retract their resignation. This offer was declined.)

Really makes you think.

(If I have misunderstood any of the judgement and read what was not between the lines, feel free to put me right.)

My extensive studies of Swedish swearing☆ suggest that 'Helvete' is used for 90% of situations, with 'Piss' filling most of the remaining gap. In extremis (such as the provocation of repeated teaspoon disregard) a switch to English is indeed the preferred solution.

No proper Bad Swears? 😦

And they call themselves a civilised country . . .

It showed a new side to her, it really did.

I had always found her a very efficient and capable co-worker, but we'd never particularly gelled on a personal level - she seemed to have little or no sense of humour. I feel that had we each known the other's deep spoon-related emotions we would probably have been out on the lash together every weekend.

Why is sex in quotation marks - do they REALLY think it's a made up thing?

They probably did then. They might not be quite so sure now.

First post (ever). Noticed that the OU Student Association is flagging up ways to get support if you have concerns about this Tribunal. https://www.oustudents.com/news/article/6013/Support-for-students-during-the-Jo-Phoenix-Employment-Tribunal/ They stress they are not involved and that 'our overarching goal is to create a safe, inclusive, and nurturing environment for all OU students.' Some of the readers here may be current OU students and be interested in exploring these ways of saying how this affects them. (Note that most OU students are not on campus so the PG students who work/study there fulltime are the ones that central academics hear from on any sort of regular basis. These are likely to be younger students, overall OU students are older than at most unis (OU stats say 68% of new undergrads are aged 25+)

The weblink details 4 ways of flagging need for support as an OU student (lots of options) and concludes "This case may raise a lot of emotions but to foster a supportive and welcoming community of OU students, we ask that you remember to be kind to each other during what may for some be a difficult time."

It may be worth noting these routes to having a say if you are an OU student and have any issues with being GC. Not only re. this tribunal.

The OU is great place to study with some phenomenal staff. But its also an exceptionally polite and well intended workplace which tries to stand up for the underdog. I have been trammelled in the process myself. Its hard to be seen as having been bullied by people who present as oppressed. (Overall, from my experience, the OU is a much more transparent and open place than elsewhere in academia).

Perhaps they are just finding it a nice change from being female and lesbian (race, colour or creed being immaterial).

I expect it is the novelty value.

I suppose universities are beginning to understand that there's a difference in terms of consequences between playing philosophical games that are designed to end up in a social contagion and the bullying of employees, and abiding by the meaning of the law.

But dear lord where has the leadership been? I think it would be interesting to study the leadership at the universities / departments where this didn't happen and sanity and the law continued to prevail.

Meanwhile, us mere support minions buy and carry a Light My Fire or similar item.

Hello @Retiredfromthere welcome to the vipers nest

When does the case resume? I've just logged in to see there are no transcripts from any proceedings, today.

Preparation day today (no proceedings) with final submissions from KCs tomorrow so there are proceedings on Friday.

That doesn't set precedent because it's a first-tier judgement. It is a huge shame that JLR opted not to appeal.