Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 4

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Aren't academics expected to deploy critical thinking?!?!?!

J: Did you ever read anything c the GCRN on their website?

LD: My heart sank when I saw the SMinds podcast up there. How difficult it was for me and t/nb members of staff.

Again not really answering the question 'my heart sank' yes but why did you sign a letter if you didn't agree with it.

Is it me or does LD have rather a casual demeanour considering LD is in a court of law?

Judge why were you such a weasel and did not speak to the people you had concerns with (I paraphrase)

😂

Oh, we're certainly in the wibbly wobbly world of imaginary numbers, dark matter, string theory and quantum mechanics.

This isn't so fanciful for TRAs. I remember seeing one of our beardy "real" women say that if physicists now believe a particle can be in two places at once, be a wave at the same time, and it's position never predictable, then an individual with XY chromosomes, a male body, the testosterone of a male, the sexual aggression of a male, who'd lived fully as a male for decades, can just like that, become a female.

Yes, trans is the quantum mechanics theory of sex.

I kinda agree that maybe the whole rotten house of cards built on now foundation, and sheltering the most misogynistic individuals, wouldn't absolutely be dealt the coup de grace by BBC coverage. But it would be a huge earthquake that would leave the house revealed as made of that flimsy RAAC stuff.

Does LD not have a Scoobie as to how she's coming across? No idea that she's in deep doodoo?

That's pretty much what I heard too.

Judge - why did you feel you needed to do something in the first place?

Another Delurker coming on to say thank you to all the contributors to these threads - to me they demonstrate Mumsnet at its finest - expertise, compassion, insight, all rounded off with a huge dollop of wit. I really should be sorting out my tax but I can hardly drag myself away form the computer to see what has happened next. Please all keep up the good work

J: When you had a complaint you wrote to a senior member of staff. Why didn't you engage with the person themselves.

LD: I wrote to Prof Garside. Not to JP cos our relationship was tense. I was asking for advice/guidance but didn't get much of that.

J: Why did you think something needed to be done.

LD: Cos things were being seen as crossing the line and being upsetting. I saw it as a serious issue. Senior managers didn't seem to see it as a serious issue and took no action as far as I could see.

[They were probably hiding under their desks. Or busy with their Very Big Jobs]

Do you understand the difference between offence and harm? Ooooh good question.

Didn't answer the question.

as we all know, hurts feels = literal violence

J: Do you see a distinction between s.o. finding something offensive and being harmed.

LD: That's a difficult q but from my academic background area it could constitute harm.

Or hoping they would just fuck off with all the bollocks.

Judge please please ask if LD respects GC beliefs and if she cares whether the OU is a safe and welcoming place for GC students and staff.

T'was an excellent question. LD says blah blah zemiology.

Yes excellent question

So trans and non binary folk can't cope with a range of views as part of their job - employers take note.

The Judge gets it.

Thank you to everyone who is watching/updating. I need to work otherwise I would be with you.

Judge asking a lot of questions. We all have questions.

LD doesn't have a twitter acc any more

Getting an email about a subject they don't agree with is harmful. Millions of marketing departments dramatically rush to rewrite marketing policy based on hurt feelings.