Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Executing people?!?!? He didn’t say that surely?!?

It's a batshit analogy. In no sense could what the GCRN were doing be compared with "researching ways of executing gay people", objectively.

Presumably the analogy (Ben's one I mean not IF's batshit amendment!) is still useful to the judge, even if the witness won't accept it.

He's pandering to the "any challenge to gender identity ideology is inciting genocide" hyperbole, isn't he?

I find people like this more infuriating than the mantra chanters, tbh.

From TT

BC sitch where large number of people were saying 'members of this research group are all anti-democratic fundamentalists because they are muslims and the OU should disaffiliate' you would have no problem shutting it down would you

IF that's an interesting one, what if the research group was researching how to execute gay people. It's not black and white

BC but we agreed that the GCRN was NOT doing anything that was improper and transphobic

IF That's my view but it's not everybody's view

Agreeing with everyone who is aghast at the reputation-harming levels of 'whataboutery' here.

Scoring a verbal point with the notional student union audience that may/not be following along will cost him intellect and reputation points among his peers. His "extra ingredient" is not wholly unrelated to Nancy Kelley's bizarre perspective but goes even further in false equivalence.

And again, the effects of gender identity ideology on other groups is never ever considered.

Yes, I think you're right, Manderleyagain, it's the result of being a little bit liberal ('Sigh, I know none of us believes this GC feminist nonsense, but I suppose to be fair we've got to be seen to allow them to have freedom of speech') without thinking it through. And then blaming the GC people for causing the problems that arise.

Hopefully the analogy will show the panal just how prejudiced those against the GCRN wer3.

BC has been brilliant in extracting statements from IF that support Jo's case.
This latest is just jaw dropping.

Ok that makes more ‘sense’ in context!!!

If IF is going down this route he needs to critically analyse why one of the mostly openly welcome countries to trans ideology is Iran.

OU distances itself from GCRN. States support for trans and nbc people. Won't tolerate attacks on t and nbc. Says nothing about GC people.

IF: we were under a lot of pressure.

BC- What is missing is any recognition in that statement that GC colleagues were suffering harm.
IF- it was written in great haste

We were under pressure - wasn't that Garden Chambers excuse for discrimination against Allison?

All these clever, well paid people who are too busy to even read or understand the statements they publish

BC: framing GC beliefs within a narrative of harm, only c the impact on t and nbc people.

IF: That was the primary narrative and set of complaints from students that was being responded to at the time.

Like "full throated" 👍

How apt that weasels are today's animal of choice.

IF accepts that the OU could have been a bit more proactive with its messages of support for the GCRN!

There is a lot of I can't remembers from IF atm.

IF: Everyone in senior leadership was trying to walk through a v difficult situation.

BC: That's my point. You didn't state support for academic freedom and expression for GCRN. You were under pressure.

IF: It's an enormous cultural issue against society which expressed itself by students and others writing to the OU.

Ben WILL be finished with this witness by 1. Two more areas to explore.

BC- will finish with IF by lunch at 1.

I think Ben has firmly established the hostile working environment that Jo had to operate within.

IF responds very testily. Can he see his time is running out?