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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Rishi - A man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense

222 replies

WallaceinAnderland · 04/10/2023 15:05

Looked for a thread on this but couldn't see one. BBC reporting this statement by RIshi Sunak today.

"We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be - they can’t," he says. "A man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67001483/page/2

Rishi Sunak speech: PM scraps rest of HS2 and says A-levels will be replaced - BBC News

In his first speech as PM to the Conservative Party conference, he also proposes trying to create a "smoke-free generation".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67001483/page/2

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WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 04/10/2023 20:54

Lastchancechica · 04/10/2023 20:52

And the fact it’s so opaque and hidden doesn’t bother you?

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I couldn’t see anything! I didn’t think it was opaque and hidden, so much as absent. Is there something on that web page about it that I’ve missed?

Lastchancechica · 04/10/2023 20:56

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 04/10/2023 20:54

I couldn’t see anything! I didn’t think it was opaque and hidden, so much as absent. Is there something on that web page about it that I’ve missed?

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You don’t need to scour Labour policy! You can just sit there and listen to Starmer speak! Or better still google Rosie Duffield.

ketchup07070 · 04/10/2023 20:57

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps I pasted a couple of relevant paras for you on previous page.

lemmein · 04/10/2023 21:01

WallaceinAnderland · 04/10/2023 15:29

He doesn't either believe or disbelieve what he's saying

I disagree on this point. I think he absolutely does believe that men are men and women are women. In fact, I think almost every adult in the world believes this too.

Yeah I agree with this. I don't believe anyone truly think TWAW, even TW - which is why the subject is so infuriating.

Helleofabore · 04/10/2023 21:02

ArabellaScott · 04/10/2023 17:15

People using the phrase 'dog whistle' is a fucking dog whistle.

Yes. Absolutely.

It is usually those who believe they are being kind. Like stating that trans people might be scared that the PM has stated a scientifically proven fact while seemingly being completely oblivious to the fear that women and girls feel every fucking time Starmer obfuscates and refuses to commit to protecting single ‘SEX’ spaces (not the dishonest ‘safe spaces’ he keeps mentioning) or when the lib Dems simply keep publishing and celebrating gender identity ideological led statements.

But yeah… ‘dog whistles’ when the PM says something eh!

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/10/2023 21:03

ketchup07070 · 04/10/2023 20:54

  • Introduce a full, trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices while protecting legitimate talking therapies, closing any consent loopholes that remain on the statute book
  • Build consensus and modernise the process of gender recognition to remove indignities for trans people, while upholding the Equality Act, its protected characteristics and its provision for single-sex exemptions.

Well I can’t wait to see how they think they can actually do either of these!

  1. who defines what is ‘legitimate’ given that TRA think any questioning of any kind is transphobic
  2. (Leaving aside that as far as I can see there are no indignities & it’s costs all of £5), how do they plan to make getting a GRC easier balance with upholding single sex exceptions given Stonewall have trained every public body to believe exceptions are illegal? Oh and build consensus- again, good luck with that!
WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 04/10/2023 21:03

ketchup07070 · 04/10/2023 20:57

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps I pasted a couple of relevant paras for you on previous page.

Thank you. I’d missed them.

They seem, well, anaemic, and a right old cop out, to be honest.

Chersfrozenface · 04/10/2023 21:04

ketchup07070 · 04/10/2023 20:54

  • Introduce a full, trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices while protecting legitimate talking therapies, closing any consent loopholes that remain on the statute book
  • Build consensus and modernise the process of gender recognition to remove indignities for trans people, while upholding the Equality Act, its protected characteristics and its provision for single-sex exemptions.

  1. What do they mean by "closing any consent loopholes that remain on the statute book"?

  2. "Build consensus" = get the stupid people to accept gender ideology

  3. "modernise the process of gender recognition to remove indignities for trans people" = give out a Gender Recognition Certificate to anyone who wants one at the say-so of a tame gender ideologue with an unspecified qualification

EasternStandard · 04/10/2023 21:04

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/10/2023 21:03

Well I can’t wait to see how they think they can actually do either of these!

  1. who defines what is ‘legitimate’ given that TRA think any questioning of any kind is transphobic
  2. (Leaving aside that as far as I can see there are no indignities & it’s costs all of £5), how do they plan to make getting a GRC easier balance with upholding single sex exceptions given Stonewall have trained every public body to believe exceptions are illegal? Oh and build consensus- again, good luck with that!
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Yep how do they intend to do the second one

Helleofabore · 04/10/2023 21:09

ketchup07070 · 04/10/2023 20:54

  • Introduce a full, trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices while protecting legitimate talking therapies, closing any consent loopholes that remain on the statute book
  • Build consensus and modernise the process of gender recognition to remove indignities for trans people, while upholding the Equality Act, its protected characteristics and its provision for single-sex exemptions.

And yet, has any person seen what labour believe the EA says about males with GRC s? If they still believe they are female ‘single sex spaces’ are meaningless.

Lastchancechica · 04/10/2023 21:13

What is meaningless is the term woman in the Labour Party.

ketchup07070 · 04/10/2023 21:34

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps I just pasted them, since you asked. Personally, I think a commitment to upholding single sex exemptions is reassuring. However, I do love some lively disagreement and am not fully sold on Labour for my vote!

MargotBamborough · 04/10/2023 21:54

herewegoroundthebastardbush · 04/10/2023 20:35

But you have to care whether voting for the Tories on the basis of this ONE issue will make things worse for women and girls on a host of other fronts. There is NO POINT saving women and girls from THIS issue if it means throwing their economic and educational wellbeing, their health service, the desperately needed reform of their police force, etc etc etc etc, in the bin.

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If we don't save women and girls from this issue, women and girls will not actually exist as a concept in law and we will not be able to fight for their rights, now or at any point in the future.

I also don't actually have faith in Labour to fix any of those issues given that they mostly seem concerned with making idiots of themselves over whether women can have penises, FFS. Hardly inspires confidence, does it?

Lastchancechica · 04/10/2023 22:05

MargotBamborough · 04/10/2023 21:54

If we don't save women and girls from this issue, women and girls will not actually exist as a concept in law and we will not be able to fight for their rights, now or at any point in the future.

I also don't actually have faith in Labour to fix any of those issues given that they mostly seem concerned with making idiots of themselves over whether women can have penises, FFS. Hardly inspires confidence, does it?

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Agree. Everything pales into insignificance next to this.

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2023 12:41

Here is a very confused newsreader, adamant that Sunak 'broke the law' by stating that you can't change sex.

I'm not quite convinced she knows she was talking to the Transport Minister, not the Trans Minister.

https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1709840600537710936

https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1709840600537710936

Datun · 05/10/2023 14:22

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2023 12:41

Here is a very confused newsreader, adamant that Sunak 'broke the law' by stating that you can't change sex.

I'm not quite convinced she knows she was talking to the Transport Minister, not the Trans Minister.

https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1709840600537710936

Crikey, that's just embarrassing.

Kucinghitam · 05/10/2023 14:49

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2023 12:41

Here is a very confused newsreader, adamant that Sunak 'broke the law' by stating that you can't change sex.

I'm not quite convinced she knows she was talking to the Transport Minister, not the Trans Minister.

https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1709840600537710936

Stonewall Law strikes again!

Chersfrozenface · 05/10/2023 16:14

Just nailed my colours to the mast on social media in response to a critical comment on the Sunak quote.

Will probably get unfriended by a bunch of people but TBH I was already withdrawing from them to an extent - way too much pronouning and queering. Their loss - I'm far more entertaining than most of them anyway, online and in person. That's not boasting, it's a balanced assessment

ArabellaScott · 05/10/2023 16:20

Kucinghitam · 05/10/2023 14:49

Stonewall Law strikes again!

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At least we are now seeing just how enormously large the chasm between reality and belief is for some people.

'It's illegal to say you can't change sex' is quite spectacular batshittery.

Original poster
WallaceinAnderland · 05/10/2023 16:44

Stonewall's no debate stance has led to this.

If they had entered into appropriate discussion with policy makers in the first place there would be no need for the Prime Minister to re-state basic facts with regard to the rights of all men and women in this country.

And there would be no tears from TRAs claiming persecution and genocide because of these basic facts.

Stonewall have done this and they really need to try and repair the damage instead on continuing to stoke fear.

The fact that men are men and women are women should have no impact on transgender people. This is not news. They know this already, it really should not be causing such anxiety for them.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 05/10/2023 16:59

I'm pleased to say someone has added a community note to Kay Burley's post. 😁

Tyntesfield · 05/10/2023 23:04

This from the Guardian on Rishi's statement: "He seemed in effect to argue that transgender identities were not valid".

They had to auto-translate Rishi's clear wording back into their agreed special burble.

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