How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

No men in the women’s loos.

That’s the boundary.

Men shitting themselves is not my problem, not since I retired from nursing anyway.

Egg Vindaloo Desperation would be a good name for a punk record.

Having been in many situations where I have been in emergency situations myself, I did not seek to use the male toilets. Often I had a baby kicking the hell out of or just squashing my bladder…. You know… like many women do….

Again, you have shown you have little understanding of the female lived experience regarding toileting. So much for your supposed fighting for those without privilege. You have no fucking idea!

So you would let the person defecate on themselves?

What DSD is that? I've never heard of one where the person is biologically female, but looks male.

"Let"

lol.

I would love to know the venue or city that has full male toilets whilst having a female cubicle free. Where is this magical (non existent) place?

No. I just posted it. I wanted to separate it from this post. Because they are two different posts.

Curry man can ask the cubicle occupants in the gents to hurry up. If he's really ill he's probably justified in using the disabled loos. He isn't women's problem.

So you’d let them in!

No. I wouldn’t. Just as I and millions of other women have not resorted to using the male toilets.

Sorry if that wasn’t clear to you.

You still have no idea about female lived experience though. That much is crystal clear.

So you’d let them defecate on themselves. Because in the scenario we are discussing that is the only other option. They are desperate - touching cloth - the blokes cubicles are either full with blokes who just went in or out of order. The ladies however, are all free.

Only if they have brought their pet unicorn with them. All passing transwomen have a pet unicorn.

Christ, of all the people I wouldn't want in, some twat shitting out his vindaloo has to be top of the list.

PP is mucking around on mn but this made me laugh

Would korma assuage you?

This rabbit hole is really interesting. Apparently now godes accepts that there is a great deal of doubt about ‘passing’. So much so that this ‘passing’ male would have female people standing barring the door while they seek entry with gastric distress!

Fuck. It really doesn’t get weirder and less coherent that this.

I really now can see that headline though. All the screen shots of women saying no to this poor passing male individual who just shat themselves! Mean mean women! They just don’t understand……

If the “ transperson “ was of the female sex then I have no problems with them using women’s loos, or changing rooms or showers or wards. Because they are single sex facilities, they are for women - however they identity.

it’s not the trans status of trans identifying men that is the issue, it’s the men part.

I don’t want Black men in the women’s loos, not because I’m racist but because they are men.

I don’t want Jewish men there, not because I’m anti Semitic but because they are men.

I don’t want to shower beside my lovely FIL , because he’s a man. I’m sure he would not hurt anyone , but he’s a man.

And even if I don’t personally mind, I don’t have the right to insist that my female Muslim friends should shower bedside him. Their human rights are not mine to give away.

That’s why all the feeble arguments about “ Butch lesbians “ fall flat. No one gives a flying fuck about women’s sexuality or hair / dress style. Women’s safe spaces are open to all women, regardless of their sexuality , hair styles or clothing.

This is really simple , I wonder why some posters are finding it so hard to grasp .

All women are welcome in the women’s facilities. No men are.

All of this whataboutery - what if they have one leg / one eye/ no hair / no penis / a granny called Betty/ Asthma /IBS / a pet rat - it’s all irrelevant.

Men need to learn to accept other men in male spaces. They need to be more open minded. @GodessOfThunder you need to spend your time lobbying men, not women.

It's not so bad.

I shat myself outside the ladies on a Saturday night, is something they can tell the grandchildren.

This is really simple , I wonder why some posters are finding it so hard to grasp

They don't. It's a wind up.

They can't possibly believe they have high intelligence.

Exceptionally dim people often think they are intelligent, when in fact they are merely seeing the world from the peak of Mt Stupid.

Exhibit A: most of the current and recent members of the UK cabinet.

Exhibit B ...

Do you not understand?

We women have been through scenarios like this ourselves and actually survived it. For some women at times of their lives, scenarios like this are daily occurrences.

We don’t seek to use the male toilets.

What part of this are you missing? Do you think women have not been “desperate - touching cloth” and not still used the male toilets but used the women’s toilets by waiting for one to be free. After asking all the other women if they can push ahead.

Fuck. Way to confirm that you have no concept of the female lived experience.

You are trying to use an example that women have regularly faced and still didn’t disrespect the male need for single sex spaces. They dealt with it without disrespecting others.

What part of this are you not understanding?

@GodessOfThunder why aren't other men pleading to use women's loos in case of emergency?

That scenario will never, ever happen. Never. Men's toilets are never full for long (ie at the end of a concert) and womens rarely have cubicles empty.

Try another scenario. A real one.

The unicorn could fix the gastrointestinal distress and this scenario would never eventuate. After all don’t rainbow unicorns have magical powers?

Or the unicorn could provide magic transport to find a male toilet. So many options.