How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

GoadessofThunder, the only person who has been demanding discussion of trans bodies is you. None of us are remotely interested in what men have done to themselves. Men are men are men.

Really - we had quite a few posts discussing how posters could “tell” someone is trans by looking at them.

So, quite the contrary old chum.

I don’t think dignity is an especially potent concept, UN-related or not.

The argument for TW having access to female spaces for their dignity holed below the waterline, thanks Godess, you are doing brilliant work here.

No, read back. We were explaining that we can tell men by looking at them. 'Trans' is irrelevant, men are men are men.

So I get deleted for responding to this? MN doesn't think this is a twisted thing to post? Seriously, think it through mods🙄

What is post op bods provided evidence they had no penis? Visually.

No probs.

Really - we had quite a few posts discussing how posters could “tell” someone is male by looking at them.

FTFY

Night guys!

Good night Mr Thunder.

Ha this made me laugh

No. They are not.

Most ‘alt-right’ people seek to uphold gender stereotypes! You are one trope posting machine today! Well done.

For the benefit of those reading along, the usage of the term ‘GC’ in dishonest here. It is a tactic used by extreme trans activists who some lazy posters have read and just repeat without understanding the falsity. Like many things repeated on this thread.

The term ‘GC’ of course is a shortened version of ‘Gender Critical’, which is shortening of ‘Gender Critical feminist’. Gender critical feminist was the original term and referred to the feminist theory that rejected gender stereotypes. Meaning that those feminists rejected the stereotypes being used by trans people to define their identities. Feminists seek to abolish the gender stereotypes embraced by people who believe that people can change sex.

It is a universal belief that people cannot change sex. The vast majority of the world’s population don’t believe people can change sex. So therefore people across a wide spectrum of political views share that opinion based on scientific evidence.

Some people who are considered far right wing also share the belief that people cannot change sex. It is not a controversial thing to believe. No chopping of cocks will change a person’s sex. Those groups also tend to embrace gender stereotypes.

However, to falsely align feminists with people who may have very different motivations to them yet want outcome that look similar when described at top level description only, extreme activists have dropped the ‘feminist’ from
the term ‘gender critical feminist’:

This is how ‘gender critical‘ is dishonestly misused. To falsely bolster discussions about political alignment.

Those other groups who also believe that sex cannot be changed, yet embrace gender stereotypes are falsely labelled ‘gender critical’. They are not. But by falsely labelling the different groups this way, by force teaming feminists with far right groups, extreme trans activists and lazy people who simply repeat what those activists say, portray feminists as allies of the far right. This is done to discredit feminists and to portray them as hateful towards trans people. This is false.

Hence you get a ridiculous statement such as ;

“almost all alt-right bods are GC”

So again this poster is showing their ignorance of the issues that are discussed frequently on this board.

your verbal violence against trans bodies.

Crikey! The hyperbole is strong tonight!

Echoing this.

Men are men are men

I do not believe in the gender fairy or worship the gods of misogyny.

Transwomen are men. Regardless of their bepenised or not bepenised state.

The law says we must not discriminate against transwomen on the basis of their penis status. So we will follow the law to the letter and say a) we have a right not to believe this crap b) we have a right to protections and dignity for ourselves c) since all transwomen are the same under law, and the default is the male body we are well within our right to exercise a firm belief that this poses a threat to women because 'insert all the above mentioned evidence of offending' and to refer to point b if point c isn't considered valid enough.

No means no. We do not consent to males in single sex spaces or being seen as fair collateral damage.

Fight your own battles against male violence and abuse without hurting us.

Showing ignorance is a term that is far too generous and kind.

They know exactly the difference between generally left leaning gender critical feminists and the alt-right.

They are using the conflation willfully and deliberately to slur and to try and shame moderates into siding with them by using the propaganda technique of trying to frame this as being 'either with us or against us' and in cohorts with the far right.

I'm not just going to let that pass without saying it's manipulative and coercive and controlling.

It's trying to make out that anyone who has an interest in human rights 'belongs' to Genderism.

It's all about the believers and the heretic narrative. It's not even subtle or disguised.

So don't even suggest it's ignorance. It's not. It's twisted and contrived and very deliberate.

Screenshot this!
Personally I think that we should start thinking about letting TW into women's toilets once about 100 of them have been subjected to minor offences in the men's loo.

Fairs fair 🤷🏼‍♀️

You know you've fallen off the cliff, when the fact that you can tell men from women is eagerly equated to, omg let all these men show you their genitalia.

It's you, thunder, who has been banging on about genital inspections, cock or no cock and shouldn't you all have a look?

No one else is remotely interested.

Usually when someone flashes their genitals at women it is taken as a sign that they are dangerous.

You want trans people to flash their genitals at women to demonstrate that they are harmless and should be allowed in our intimate spaces?

I feel like the only person on the thread who doesn't understand What is post op bods provided evidence they had no penis? Visually

Is it a haiku?

What is
post op bods
provided evidence
they had no penis
Visually.

It means drop their knickers and show everyone what is or isn't down there.

You're the only guy on the board.

A visual penis?
Post - op or not a post op,
Evidence needed?

Holy fuck. The penny dropped for me.

That is wasn't supposed to be any form of the verb 'to be' then; it's merely a mistyped if!

Fuck off to the far side of fuck with that, Godess.

They Would Still Be Male, @GodessOfThunder.

Removing a man’s penis, and creating a neo-vagina does not make that man into a woman. They still have male DNA, male chromosomes, a male skeleton, a male endocrine system - not to mention male entitlement, male character and a very male disregard for women’s safety or feelings.