How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

The definition of a woman has never started with the words, 'a man who...'

Mm. Godess has already implied that the loophole allowing trans-identifying male offenders to target women should be closed, if more than 100 women are impacted by trans-identifying offenders. Anyone else remember that?

We know that more than 100 women are being affected, so what is Godess going to do to prevent more women being abused?

If you doubt me about the numbers, consider Adam 'Isla Bryson' Graham, of the pink leggings fame. In 2021, while awaiting trial for raping two women, Bryson identified as 'Annie' to enrol on a beauty course at a further education college with young women.

It is accepted practice that students on beauty courses practise the techniques on each other, and some require the model or client to undress. His fellow students attest that this was the case on their course too, and that Adam (known to them as Annie) was in the room when other students undressed.

'Annie' was asked to leave the course after three months for aggressive behaviour to his fellow students and to staff, but up until then that was potentially an entire class of young women subjected to Graham's gaze while undressed or partially dressed. The word voyeurism unaccountably runs through my mind.

That's probably something like 25 women impacted by just one man.

See Revelations about rapist Isla Bryson made student on same course physically sick

Poster who nominated at least 100 girls and women to be abused each year before they feel it would be appropriate to exclude all male people from female single sex spaces NOW advocates male people to expose their genitals to girls and women !

POSTER HAS NO BOUNDARIES AROUND SEXUAL ACTIVITIES AND DOESN’T RESPECT OTHER’S BOUNDARIES AT ALL.

Do you see it yet?

This poster has no boundaries around sexual acts at all. Hence they cannot see the world the way the vast majority of people see the it.

To this poster, 100 girls and women should be sexually abused per year just in the UK until there is an established trend over that number before the government should enact laws banning all male people over the age of about 8 (when mothers tend to stop taking male children into female toilets). Then this poster writes that women and girls should be exposed to male genitalia for verification on entry to the female toilet.

Hence, states the number to be sexually abused and then describes how it should be done.

On a parenting forum, on the feminist board! This is truly sickening.

Just reposting so readers can see the complete lack of boundaries.

And this.

This poster doesn’t believe that girls and women should have privacy and dignity. They don’t even believe that dignity should be in any law or policy decision because they don’t feel it is ‘objective’. That is despite neighbourhood posting the UN working paper of the very concept. That of the human need to feel their needs are worthy of consideration. This is also perhaps pertinent :

“the dignity of the human person is part of the substance of the rights laid down in this Charter. It must therefore be respected, even where a right is restricted.”

Note that even the EU believes that dignity can be respected while a right is restricted. The need for privacy from ANY male above a certain age is a source of dignity for female people. Well, apart from any who don’t have sexual and other boundaries.

The result is that some people see girl’s and women’s boundaries as a challenge, some see those boundaries as meaningless. Girls and women are expendable resources in order to achieve a particular groups aims.

And here we have a poster using every bit of tropish fuckwittery we have seen to attempt to find the lever to convince women to allow a group of male people access to female single sex space. In other words, we have a poster attempting to find ways to convince women to allow the sexual abuse of girls and women by a particular group of male people.

Or they are here mocking and jeering at people who have the boundaries they don’t personally seem to have.

I also remind posters that this is the poster who believes that mothers leave their babies in prams and pushchairs outside cubicles while mothers are using the toilet.

A sure indication that they have no real experience of the lives of female people. Of the many uses of those toilets for girls and women.

This is a poster who either has lived a very narrow and privileged life not to have experienced the many uses of a female toilets, or they are not female.

Sorry, to add a last line.

This poster may have have other motivating factors, but I suggest either of these two will make an appearance in some form.

Where do you guys stand on intersex people in ladies loos?

Females with a DSD use the womens

Males with a DSD use the mens

Not difficult

Wouldn’t that potentially mean people who ‘look male’ were in the ladies bogs? And that would scare a 10 year old potentially.

some people see girl’s and women’s boundaries as a challenge, some see those boundaries as meaningless

Yep.

@GodessOfThunder Your words: "Wouldn’t that potentially mean people who ‘look male’ were in the ladies bogs? And that would scare a 10 year old potentially."

so are you now advocating for mixed sex facilities and no segregation

or

segregating based on masculine & feminine features regardless of biological sex and which features would then be applicable and where does the boundary lie?

Is this also applicable for communal changing rooms, hospital wards, sports teams, prisons etc. or are we just keeping to toilets here?

Wahoo! DSDs.

It is clear that we are visiting every trope now. We have covered the misogynistic, racist and homophobic ones. Advocated for sexual abuse. Now we have politicisation of people’s medical conditions.

All very breezy like. It has long past offensive. I think it is a game to see how long to get women to lose it and have their posts deleted , maybe get some of hateful women banned, or this poster honestly believes they have some kind of moral superiority or high intelligence that posters don’t have and think this is them playing prod the FWR regulars.

All while thinking we haven’t seen all of this before on these threads.

It is uncanny this detachment from emotion while using all the emotional manipulation tactics. There is a term I would use but I would be deleted so I won’t.

The worst part is, I believe this person has said they have a child.

You had Lucy Letby, so come on it wasn’t all old news. Give me some credit.

I know we all know (and learn at an early age) that talking 'dirty' around non-consenting women is a turn-on for creepy males, but it's interesting to see it in action here. No doubt more underwear and body-part references are incoming.

The thing is, this is all just a game to Goddess. Come on MN, wind up the women, all so totes hilaire

women are support humans to Goddess, no thoughts, feelings or agency

our rights are stripped away, we are physically attacked, hounded and harassed, our dignity & spaces violated but it’s all just fun and games to goddess

People with DSDs have asked repeatedly not to be used as pawns in this game, and not to be referred to as 'intersex'. I suppose their human dignity is irrelevant to our demonstrator too.

It has been useful to be shown why there can no middle ground - we either give in to abuse or we resist.

By the way godes, got that evidence that a male at ANY stage of transition has a reduced risk of committing sex offences than the rest of the UK male population?

You didn't address my points upthread about Letby.

Or the others directed to you.

This is no longer good faith.

Creep.

Having looked at Godess's posting history ( yes, it is a public board and the information freely available) there is a consistent thread running though all of their posts on the few topics which seem to pique their interest.

A total lack of generosity, goodwill, good faith, aligned with a tendency to put others down, to laugh in their face, to make lazy assumptions about people's backgrounds and values. There is a hardness and an aggression and a lack of respect. On a board designed for women to share their stories and difficulties this self absorption, lack of empathy and meanness of spirit really does stand out.

@Helleofabore
or this poster honestly believes they have some kind of moral superiority or high intelligence that posters don’t have . . .

They can't possibly believe they have high intelligence. They probably went to a terrible private school that taught divide-and-rule methods, and also trained the technique of demanding definitions of terms. But they do it badly because their imagination is limited and they can't understand a lot of what they're reading. Classic dimwit.

Both these have been attempted over the last couple of days and both have failed - notably we haven't turned on lesbians, legal definitions of human dignity and of Travellers have been cited, instances of attacks have been given - and with that, there's a rapid change of subject because 'face' has been lost.

There's an unpreparedness to believe that males look male, whatever they do to themselves.

yup. All hints that it went to an awful school - possibly one with a cadet company and at least some staff and students with military training. They are expensive, and competent and providing a level of training, but hopeless at education.

I reckon Godess thinks they are the story and the only thing keeping the thread going. It is just a game to them. They demand maximum effort from others - but give nothing of themselves.

You lot were the ones who first stated going on about chopped off penises, genital inspections and cycling through body parts which allowed you to tell who was trans.

In fact this poster has a real chip on their shoulder about private schools. The arrogance is actually meant to defend personal insecurities,