How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

I know. This one is a corker.

This is when the mask not only comes off, it's gets flung off in spitting rage, hurled to the floor and stamped on 🤣

GodessOfThunder · Today 13:18

They are no more embarrassing than any of the arguments advanced on this thread as to why post op transsexuals should be barred from ladies’ loos.

Not content with butch lesbians, calipers, Lucy Letby and genital inspections, we're now aiming for the concept that women should actually be embarrassed over their need for sex segregation.

Women need sex segregation, because men constitute the predator class and that fact should embarrass the women 🤣🤣🤣

Haha!!! Actually chuckling.

Are you making an argument for the abolition of single sex spaces then?

Are you male?

I’m not sure why understanding this is difficult

@GodessOfThunder - can you explain how we are supposed to distinguish between the perfectly nice trans women, and the ones who are predatory?

In my opinion, a male born individual who seeks to force themselves into women's single sex spaces is clearly demonstrating predatory behaviour.

Lol, no!

Because men.

if only they didn't commit 98% of all sex crimes.

Awks.

“Because they’re men” is not an embarrassing argument.

”What about butch lesbians frightening women in women’s loos?” is a very embarrassing argument.

Women in women’s loos = absolutely fine.

Men in women’s loos = not fine.

Trans women are not women. I’m sorry if that makes them sad, “unsafe” even, but it’s a fact.

Oh, I think we are having a Thread Crossover event, with the disparaging mention of the 1970s - I think we're heading towards the Right Side of History event horizon

How can you distinguish between women who are fine with children and Lucy letby types, and keep the latter out of our loos! WE demand it!!!

But are post op transsexuals a risk?

It's just more shaming tactics.

🍿All this is so very enlightening and educational🍿

Now we've got age shaming.

We'll have pearl clutching next.

Are they even unsafe with no penis? If so, why?

I miss the 1970s.

The good old days.

Bring them back!

HOW CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A POST OP TRANSSEXUAL AND A MAN WHO HAS A PENIS?

Because they are male.

Some are - for example Jessica Yaniv, who wondered on social media if they could offer to help a young teenage girl insert their first tampon, if they overheard them having problems in the ladies' loos.

Transitioning will not stop a predatory man being a predator. And since there is no way to distinguish between the 'safe' ones and the Yannivs, then I'd prefer that they stayed the fuck out of women's single sex spaces.

They can change neither their biological sex, nor their character. All they can do is have some plastic surgery and LARP womanhood.

Who knows? We don't risk assess on each individual!

That will take almost as long as you trying to determine whether or not the person you're chatting up is male or female.

Just to be clear, a) maternity nurses don't commit 98% all sex crimes. And b) Lucy Letby is in prison.

Yes, if she comes out, she will be using the women's toilets.

I wasn't even born in the 1970s and I don't really remember the 1980s but I'm pretty sure single sex loos were a thing in the 1990s and 2000s.

They’re men. Women’s spaces are for women. Sweet zombie Jesus, how can you not understand?

But I have to congratulate you on the Lucy Letby thing, that’s a new one for me.

Being female is not an ideological construction; it is a physical/psycho-social reality that is recognised the world over.

I thought you claimed to be a feminist. If you cannot centre women in your thoughts or considerations than that is not what you are.

Yes, they are unsafe even with no penis.

Because:

1. They are still physically bigger than the average woman and can easily overpower us if they want to.
2. They can still cause the same mental trauma to a rape or sexual assault survivor who sees them in a women's toilet or changing room with their clothes on.
3. Letting them in means we also have to let male rapists with penises in because there is no way of telling the difference between a post op MtF transsexual and a male rapist with a penis.

Frankly this isn't women's problem to solve. It's impossible to tell which men are safe and which aren't, which have a penis, which don't and of those that don't which are still a risk to women. So it's a blanket no males.

The solution is a 3rd space if needed.

I hesitate to even suggest this, because I'm sure you don't even understand the concept, but can you drag your eyes of the man in question for one second. One nanosecond even. And focus on the women.

Women don't want men in their spaces. Most don't care if they've got penises or not, they don't care how the person feels, they don't care if the person is hurt. The women don't want men there.

And women who have been raped, assaulted, who have PTSD, who were traumatised by a man, they aren't going to sit there wondering whether or not the man has a penis!! And it won't make the slightest bit of difference to them anyway.

I don't want to share my toilets with any man. Including my son's best mate, and my father-in-law. Two of the nicest men you could wish to meet.

How will you ensure predatory women such as Letby are barred from the loo?