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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Trans Widows' Escape Committee 6: The Next Generation

174 replies

TinselAngel · 24/08/2023 22:30

Welcome to thread 6.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for a reason.


Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

The main event this year outisde the thread will hopefully be the release of Vaishnavi Sundar's film about Trans Widows- Behind the Looking Glass



If you would like to donate to help Vaishnavi finish the project, details are here:



Please feel free to say "Hi" below, even if you are not a trans widow, to start the thread off.

Behind The Looking Glass - Teaser - Lime Soda Films Feature-Length Documentary

Watch our fundraiser teaser here: https://youtu.be/dH4XQ6Ie8O0Support our project: www.limesodafilms.com/donateLime Soda Films' upcoming film titled Behind T...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhAlvw_kAHs

OP posts:
Transwidow987 · 01/10/2023 14:41

Thank you. I talk about it more to help other people who might be experiencing similar things.

TinselAngel · 19/10/2023 22:51

Those of us who have been on these threads for a while will find this not in the least surprising Grin

x.com/transwidows/status/1715122801705644107?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

OP posts:
Damaya · 19/10/2023 22:59

That made me actually lol!!

ImNotWorthy · 19/10/2023 23:38

<ahem> Although I am a woman, I love model railways. I have even been to a model railway exhibition at Locomotion, an outpost of the National Railway Museum. But I would never have one of my own. I am inept and clumsy, and would break it...

I do agree he looks a bit of a berk, though Grin
Hope all you posters are doing ok BrewBrew

Mommyisnotsilent · 04/11/2023 03:16

Hey everyone,

I've been gone for a little while. Life happened. Then today hit me like a train flying off the tracks. Allow me to explain please...

I left my abusive ex when our child was a year old. Shortly after he claimed that he's transgender. Soon after he started demanding that I and our child call him female pronouns and our child should call him, "mommy." No, not just mommy, all of the pronouns. I tried asking him to pick one to avoid confusion. He called me transphobic again. So, our child came back from summer visitation stating that she has two moms and a daddy. Oh, yeah he calls his partner her daddy. No they aren't married.

It's been just over a month since he has last talked to our child. She's three now. I thought I had a break through a couple of weeks ago when I showed her two different pictures of her father. How he looked before and after and how they look very much the same. The only difference is the longer hair and heavy cover up. He still has a five oclock shadow. No, he isn't concerned about passing. Like, at all. My daughter understood it clearly and I wanted to jump up shout and celebrate. She has been so damn confused by his actions. She looked at me and said, "Daddy is silly isn't he?" And I said, "Yes but that's a grown up problem you don't have to worry about."

Then today... When we were have some er difficulties... She never went through terrible two's. So, yeah. Hello terrible threes? Anyhow, she was pushing boundaries about not putting her seat belt on and I wasn't having it. Normally, she will wait for me to buckle her she even helps by pulling the buckle over her head. Today? Nope, even after explaining she wanted to be stubborn. She finally let me buckle her when I stepped back, pulled out my phone and acted as if I wasn't budging until she put her seat belt on. (don't laugh, she's pouting, don't laugh!) I said to myself. She has the cutest pout.

I buckle my seat belt and she says to me... "I'm going to my new home with my other Mommy and Daddy." I stopped and swallowed hard. "Do you mean me?" I asked. "No. My other Mommy." I ah, it hurt... I know she didn't mean it but it hurt. I expected to hear from my child, "I don't like you," or "I hate you," Or "I'm going to run away." I didn't expect to hear that.

I took the drive to the store to think about what to say. When I got there I opened her door and explained everything all over again.

I cried the first time I felt her kick. For the first time in my life a pregnancy was holding. I was going to be a mother and it made me cry tears of joy. Oh, I blubbered! When she was born I didn't want to put her down or let her go. Before I gave birth I thought that I might not be able to breast feed. It always sounded weird to me. The first time I breast fed, I cried again. I loved her the minute I knew she was there.

But in times like this... I suddenly find myself feeling like I am not her mother. Like something was taken from me, violently. There have been other times when she's been gone at visitation with him or when she's come back and it takes her awhile to adapt to being back. It hurts. It feels unreal. I feel numb. I hate it. I don't feel like a mother. It feels like there's a giant gaping hole inside of me. Yeah, I'm in therapy, yeah I've been diagnosed with PTSD... But there are times where I don't have anyone to talk to.

I'm 44 with a three year old with an abusive ex who is using a real mental illness to continue abusing me through our child. This is beyond fetishes and dysphoria... I hate that he can still impact me like this. But tonight I find myself trying to get that feeling of motherhood back. I'm her mother... Right?

NitroNine · 04/11/2023 08:43

Oh @Mommyisnotsilent - of course you’re her mother. And she has no idea of the true impact of her words - she’s trying to hurt you, as revenge for her own hurt feelings, in that toddlery way that more commonly brings out “I hate you” or “you’re not my friend any more”. If a toddler has divorced parents “I’m going to live with Other Parent” is standard; & if there is a step-parent “Name is a nicer mummy than you!”

Most importantly though, your DD is demonstrating she knows you’re her mommy & that you love her unconditionally. She knows you won’t reject her; she knows you won’t ship her off to her father’s forever. To her, in that moment, having to wear her seatbelt was the absolute end of the world & you were cruel & unreasonable to make her (raising the question of what she does at your ex’s that she suddenly thinks they might be optional: I know seatbelt laws vary from State to State [& indeed Territory], but at 3 she’ll be legally required to wear a seatbelt, & probably use a carseat) wear her seatbelt. Toddlers are not famed for their reasoning skills, nor their sense of proportion. They do tend to have a strong sense of justice though - if someone has been bold they must be held to account! Their wee brains are easily overwrought because they’re constantly learning so much & they often can’t communicate as effectively as they’d wish - or aren’t taken as seriously as they’d wish.

So the threes are probably more terrible for your DD to experience than any kind of tantrum she might throw; not only are you her mommy, your DD knows you are & has a really secure attachment to you; it’s ok you were hurt by what she said - she was aiming to hurt, but with no conception of the nature of that hurt & in an explosive toddler way. Today, less another tantrum, you will be Best Mommy In The World again; & she will mean it, absolutely, in that fierce little way wee folk have.

Please be very gentle with yourself. Contact your therapist if you can, perhaps, because while it’s normal, it’s understandable for it to have shaken you.

(And someone with much better advice - I only read the thread sometimes as not widow of any variety - should be here soon, I just didn’t want to leave you without a reply.)

AlphaTransWoman · 04/11/2023 12:21

That isn't fair and it isn't right. Your child has one mother, and nothing your ex partner thinks, says or does can change that, however they identify. It is wrong that your ex partner is seeking to confuse your child in this way and I hope they are willing to consider an alternative that centres you as the mother. This is important for the child's wellbeing and your own.

TinselAngel · 04/11/2023 12:36

AlphaTransWoman · 04/11/2023 12:21

That isn't fair and it isn't right. Your child has one mother, and nothing your ex partner thinks, says or does can change that, however they identify. It is wrong that your ex partner is seeking to confuse your child in this way and I hope they are willing to consider an alternative that centres you as the mother. This is important for the child's wellbeing and your own.

Please don't post on this thread, it's for trans widows. We don't want people like our exes on it. Show some respect.

OP posts:
ArthurbellaScott · 04/11/2023 14:01

Every incursion is an illustration.

YouJustDoYou · 04/11/2023 14:59

TinselAngel · 04/11/2023 12:36

Please don't post on this thread, it's for trans widows. We don't want people like our exes on it. Show some respect.

Can't help themselves, can they?

Crouton19 · 04/11/2023 15:28

Just delurking to say that Shannon Thrace's book is 99p on Kindle today. I heard her interviewed last year and her story will be familiar to many on here.

ImNotWorthy · 04/11/2023 16:49

AlphaTransWoman · 04/11/2023 12:21

That isn't fair and it isn't right. Your child has one mother, and nothing your ex partner thinks, says or does can change that, however they identify. It is wrong that your ex partner is seeking to confuse your child in this way and I hope they are willing to consider an alternative that centres you as the mother. This is important for the child's wellbeing and your own.

It seems to me that some folk on here have misunderstood, or misread, a recent post?

Did you read what @AlphaTransWoman actually wrote? They are agreeing with you. As far as I can see.

It occurs to me that some of you saw their username and your own prejudice stopped you reading their post properly. I hope I am wrong BrewBrewBrew

@Mommyisnotsilent the seat-belt thing is just normal 3-year-old behaviour. I've had it with my own DC, and my friends' DC. Between the ages of 2 and 4, children are learning how to be them, in charge of themselves. They don't know why they have to wear a seatbelt. They only know they don't want to, and they are also working out that they have the option of not doing what their parent wants.

This is easily dealt with, quite quickly. It requires patience when you are doing it, but the DC will learn that you mean business either the first time, or the second. It is about consequences.

So you are in the car, and the DC won't put their seatbelt on. (Or in another variation, you are in the car going somewhere, and they have taken their seatbelt off. In which case you pull over safely as soon as you can.)

Nothing is more important than your child's life. Not getting to the shops in time, not meeting someone off a train. So nothing is more important than your child always wearing a seatbelt while you are driving. It is so important, that if they are not wearing their seatbelt, you will not drive the car.

2 and 3 years understand language, so you can tell them "we will stay here then, until you put your seatbelt on." You can even discuss it with them then, they may come up with some surprisingly good reasons.

However, you want to get going. So you say something like "we have to go to the shops/pick up your sister/ie purpose of journey. And I can't/won't drive the car/We're not going anywhere until you put your seatbelt on."
(Trying to show in my example above that you can tailor your words how you like. Depending on the child, you might say "OK sunshine, we're not going anywhere until you put your seatbelt on.")

Repeat, and they will eventually give in and put their seatbelt on. Continue with your day as normal. Do not have any further discussion. You are trying to make putting the seatbelt on a thing that you just do when you are in a car, like grown ups/Mummy does. And you are doing it by consequences - if seatbelt on, then Mummy will drive. if seatbelt off Mummy will not drive.

No need to explain what Mummy is thinking, which is basically this
If Mummy drives with DC in car, and DC does not have seatbelt on, and Mummy has an accident, and it's a bad accident, DC could die. Therefore Mummy will not drive with DC in car unless DC has seatbelt on.

As for the "I want my Daddy/other carer" thing, that's normal for this age as well. Many a frazzled mother/father has had to deal with their DC yelling loudly "I want my Daddy/Mummy" (the Other One). I am sure my two lesbian friends, one of whom gave birth to their two DC, had the same problem. When looking after them, I'm sure Amy will have heard "I want Hannah!", and Hannah will have heard "I want Amy!" It feels hurtful the first time they do it, but then you learn to see through itGrin

I hope this reassures you a little. Please don't blame perfectly normal child behaviour on the family situation IYSWIM.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/11/2023 16:58

To all other posters: Shame on you!

Did you read what @AlphaTransWoman actually wrote? They are agreeing with you. As far as I can see.

It occurs to me that some of you saw their username and your own prejudice stopped you reading their post properly. I hope I am wrong

Women know this poster from other threads on FWR. Advanced search might be enlightening.

TinselAngel · 04/11/2023 17:02

Did you read what @AlphaTransWoman actually wrote? They are agreeing with you. As far as I can see.

It occurs to me that some of you saw their username and your own prejudice stopped you reading their post properly. I hope I am wrong

Whether or not we agree that the sky is blue is wholly irrelevant. It is completely inappropriate for perpetrators to be on a support thread for victims. This is not prejudice it is common decency.

We also don't need other posters policing our boundaries.

OP posts:
ImNotWorthy · 04/11/2023 17:05

I edited my post while you were writing yours, so we've just done a new sort of x-post.

I don't Advance Search people as a rule. I was taking the poster and post at face value, and assuming the post was made in good faith.

I'm still a bit puzzled. What was the purpose of Alpha's post then? It does seem to agree with and support the poster they were replying to? Suppose they had name-changed to Withyoualltheway and posted, would their post have been jumped on in the same way?

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/11/2023 17:09

ImNotWorthy · 04/11/2023 16:49

It seems to me that some folk on here have misunderstood, or misread, a recent post?

Did you read what @AlphaTransWoman actually wrote? They are agreeing with you. As far as I can see.

It occurs to me that some of you saw their username and your own prejudice stopped you reading their post properly. I hope I am wrong BrewBrewBrew

@Mommyisnotsilent the seat-belt thing is just normal 3-year-old behaviour. I've had it with my own DC, and my friends' DC. Between the ages of 2 and 4, children are learning how to be them, in charge of themselves. They don't know why they have to wear a seatbelt. They only know they don't want to, and they are also working out that they have the option of not doing what their parent wants.

This is easily dealt with, quite quickly. It requires patience when you are doing it, but the DC will learn that you mean business either the first time, or the second. It is about consequences.

So you are in the car, and the DC won't put their seatbelt on. (Or in another variation, you are in the car going somewhere, and they have taken their seatbelt off. In which case you pull over safely as soon as you can.)

Nothing is more important than your child's life. Not getting to the shops in time, not meeting someone off a train. So nothing is more important than your child always wearing a seatbelt while you are driving. It is so important, that if they are not wearing their seatbelt, you will not drive the car.

2 and 3 years understand language, so you can tell them "we will stay here then, until you put your seatbelt on." You can even discuss it with them then, they may come up with some surprisingly good reasons.

However, you want to get going. So you say something like "we have to go to the shops/pick up your sister/ie purpose of journey. And I can't/won't drive the car/We're not going anywhere until you put your seatbelt on."
(Trying to show in my example above that you can tailor your words how you like. Depending on the child, you might say "OK sunshine, we're not going anywhere until you put your seatbelt on.")

Repeat, and they will eventually give in and put their seatbelt on. Continue with your day as normal. Do not have any further discussion. You are trying to make putting the seatbelt on a thing that you just do when you are in a car, like grown ups/Mummy does. And you are doing it by consequences - if seatbelt on, then Mummy will drive. if seatbelt off Mummy will not drive.

No need to explain what Mummy is thinking, which is basically this
If Mummy drives with DC in car, and DC does not have seatbelt on, and Mummy has an accident, and it's a bad accident, DC could die. Therefore Mummy will not drive with DC in car unless DC has seatbelt on.

As for the "I want my Daddy/other carer" thing, that's normal for this age as well. Many a frazzled mother/father has had to deal with their DC yelling loudly "I want my Daddy/Mummy" (the Other One). I am sure my two lesbian friends, one of whom gave birth to their two DC, had the same problem. When looking after them, I'm sure Amy will have heard "I want Hannah!", and Hannah will have heard "I want Amy!" It feels hurtful the first time they do it, but then you learn to see through itGrin

I hope this reassures you a little. Please don't blame perfectly normal child behaviour on the family situation IYSWIM.

Edited

Read the room, both of you - be sensitive to the mood and feelings of the women on this support thread before you go barging into their pain.

FWR regulars are protective of the women on this thread and for good reasons.

Damaya · 04/11/2023 17:11

Coming in late but I don’t think anyone had any issue with the post but the idea of the individual posting in this support group. What would be the possible motivation for lurking here? While you are correct they could hide their identity and post the same thing they didn’t? The name holds meaning in this space.

TinselAngel · 04/11/2023 17:12

ImNotWorthy · 04/11/2023 17:05

I edited my post while you were writing yours, so we've just done a new sort of x-post.

I don't Advance Search people as a rule. I was taking the poster and post at face value, and assuming the post was made in good faith.

I'm still a bit puzzled. What was the purpose of Alpha's post then? It does seem to agree with and support the poster they were replying to? Suppose they had name-changed to Withyoualltheway and posted, would their post have been jumped on in the same way?

Edited

Why are you so keen to derail a support thread by sticking up for a perpetrator jumping onto it with their size tens?

This is not the first person who has tried to wheedle their way around trans widows boundaries and won't be the last but we can really do without other posters coming on the thread to pontificate about it when it is not them that are upset and triggered by it.

The presence of people like our exes marking their territory like dogs, on FWR is intimidating for trans widows and inhibits discussion. That anybody should think it is appropriate on a support thread is unconscionable.

We cannot legislate against name changers true, but I would hope common decency would prevent that happening. Probably a vain hope.

OP posts:
ArthurbellaScott · 04/11/2023 17:12

Yes. This is a support thread. It's not for pissing contests.

ArthurbellaScott · 04/11/2023 17:13

Cross post, Tinsel. I see we both have territorial pissings in mind, though.

ImNotWorthy · 04/11/2023 17:14

All the best to everyone.

I am currently using a recent temporary username. So Advanced Search on this name won't find me.

I am really SequentialAnalyst. If you want to see what I think about a wide range of subjects, do please Advanced Search me Smile

I am always happy to read PMs as well. BrewBrew

TinselAngel · 04/11/2023 17:21

Mommyisnotsilent · 04/11/2023 03:16

Hey everyone,

I've been gone for a little while. Life happened. Then today hit me like a train flying off the tracks. Allow me to explain please...

I left my abusive ex when our child was a year old. Shortly after he claimed that he's transgender. Soon after he started demanding that I and our child call him female pronouns and our child should call him, "mommy." No, not just mommy, all of the pronouns. I tried asking him to pick one to avoid confusion. He called me transphobic again. So, our child came back from summer visitation stating that she has two moms and a daddy. Oh, yeah he calls his partner her daddy. No they aren't married.

It's been just over a month since he has last talked to our child. She's three now. I thought I had a break through a couple of weeks ago when I showed her two different pictures of her father. How he looked before and after and how they look very much the same. The only difference is the longer hair and heavy cover up. He still has a five oclock shadow. No, he isn't concerned about passing. Like, at all. My daughter understood it clearly and I wanted to jump up shout and celebrate. She has been so damn confused by his actions. She looked at me and said, "Daddy is silly isn't he?" And I said, "Yes but that's a grown up problem you don't have to worry about."

Then today... When we were have some er difficulties... She never went through terrible two's. So, yeah. Hello terrible threes? Anyhow, she was pushing boundaries about not putting her seat belt on and I wasn't having it. Normally, she will wait for me to buckle her she even helps by pulling the buckle over her head. Today? Nope, even after explaining she wanted to be stubborn. She finally let me buckle her when I stepped back, pulled out my phone and acted as if I wasn't budging until she put her seat belt on. (don't laugh, she's pouting, don't laugh!) I said to myself. She has the cutest pout.

I buckle my seat belt and she says to me... "I'm going to my new home with my other Mommy and Daddy." I stopped and swallowed hard. "Do you mean me?" I asked. "No. My other Mommy." I ah, it hurt... I know she didn't mean it but it hurt. I expected to hear from my child, "I don't like you," or "I hate you," Or "I'm going to run away." I didn't expect to hear that.

I took the drive to the store to think about what to say. When I got there I opened her door and explained everything all over again.

I cried the first time I felt her kick. For the first time in my life a pregnancy was holding. I was going to be a mother and it made me cry tears of joy. Oh, I blubbered! When she was born I didn't want to put her down or let her go. Before I gave birth I thought that I might not be able to breast feed. It always sounded weird to me. The first time I breast fed, I cried again. I loved her the minute I knew she was there.

But in times like this... I suddenly find myself feeling like I am not her mother. Like something was taken from me, violently. There have been other times when she's been gone at visitation with him or when she's come back and it takes her awhile to adapt to being back. It hurts. It feels unreal. I feel numb. I hate it. I don't feel like a mother. It feels like there's a giant gaping hole inside of me. Yeah, I'm in therapy, yeah I've been diagnosed with PTSD... But there are times where I don't have anyone to talk to.

I'm 44 with a three year old with an abusive ex who is using a real mental illness to continue abusing me through our child. This is beyond fetishes and dysphoria... I hate that he can still impact me like this. But tonight I find myself trying to get that feeling of motherhood back. I'm her mother... Right?

Anyway, hopefully the derail will end here.

Of course you are her mother. Don't let your reality be played with.

It is horrible that your ex is allowed to confuse your daughter like this. What is your custody arrangement? The danger of trying to change that though is the potential for it backfiring.

I think that it is important for children to be kept in touch with truth and reality. What is an age appropriate truth here? Maybe you could take the approach of "I say he and refer to him as Daddy because to me, that's what he is. When you're at Daddy's house it's up to you and Daddy what you call him."

When she's older it will be appropriate and understandable to her to say "I say he and Daddy because legally and biologically that's what he is."

Unfortunately you can't control this, you can only try and keep your grip on reality as firm as possible. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Flowers

OP posts:
ImNotWorthy · 04/11/2023 17:45

I wasn't derailing, I was on topic. I was trained to challenge prejudice as part of becoming a CAB worker, no matter who it was I had to challenge. I was not policing the thread - nobody can, except MN. I still don't understand people's thoughts, thoughConfused

@TinselAngel this is a great thread. I'll relurk. ArchersTardis

TinselAngel · 04/11/2023 17:46

I'll relurk

Please do.

OP posts:
Mommyisnotsilent · 04/11/2023 21:20

Okay, um... I am totally confused about what just happened with the not supposed to post here or is supposed to but someone asked a question so I'll respond to that.

First, I sort of skimmed over the seat belt issue because it was my toddler doing what she is doing right now, pushing boundaries exploring and learning. Kids do that, I get that. I did end up telling her that the car won't move until she choses to be safe and be buckled. She's actually yelled at me before about not wearing a buckle in a parking lot. So, it wasn't really about that or her testing...

It was deeper than that and thank you to those who did for the support, I really needed it.

So, we are in the states. My ex started court proceedings when I escaped. I say escape because I really did escape while he was out. At that point, I wasn't even allowed to step outside or talk to anyone. Sometimes he would keep my phone.

Eventually, I was able to get an attorney and the ex and I signed a final agreement lifting a geographic restriction. I moved with our child a year ago. It has been a continued uphill battle. Welfare checks, threats, times where he disappears and I think it's finally over only for him to pop up again. Like today, before today it had been over a month since he had messaged.

He is supposed to get a weekend visitation once a month but he has never utilized this option stating that it's not feasible. He gets Thanksgiving and Christmas every other year. This year I get Christmas and he gets Thanksgiving. I allow him phone calls but he rarely ever calls. There's a clause in the final that states contact must be consistent but he hasn't done that. He's always argued over the times and dates of possession. Like now, he's asking for a ridiculous amount of time because he choses to drive rather than fly for his possession time. He also calls his partner whom I doubt he will ever marry our child's father. Which is not fair to her at all.

It's a cluster F*ck. It really is. There is no shred left of the man I knew when I first met him. But if you know, you know... Abusers seldom wear red flags...

Will he pick our child up for visitation? Who knows... But our court system is utter junk and survivors of DV are often blamed and abusers are rarely held accountable. So, I can't stop him if he does actually show up. I can't force him to get help and be a consistent part of her life. I can't afford a good attorney, or private detective, who would go to bat for my child. So as long as he keeps showing up a few times a year he can keep interfering with our child's growth and development.

He has two other children. One he has never met who is eight, one who is eleven he hasn't seen since the child was a year and a half old. The amount of child support he owes all of us is insane. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad...

Oh, and I would never ever blame my child or harbor resentment or anything like that. She's a child... She wasn't asked to be born let alone have to deal with all this... Confusion...

For a time, I did call my ex her "other parent." But she was confused by that as well. She kept asking about her Daddy. I know my ex's partner will not be around forever. I was the longest relationship he had ever had. To clear confusion, I show her pictures of her biological father. What he looked like back then and what he looks like now. I try to keep it simple. But I don't want to encourage his choice of being called Mommy. I'm her mother, even though his abuse makes it feel like I am not sometimes... I shouldn't have to encourage it. I think it's important to note that this is most likely another mask he will wear for a few years enforced by public opinion and social media... He's already stopped attempting to pass. When drag wasn't enough, this was the next shiny object he could garner attention for. When it diminishes and becomes too much work he will move on. The same can be said for his relationship/s.

Sorry for writing this long... This is honestly the only place I feel heard at and supported by actual peers.

Thank you for that, really I mean it.

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