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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So apparently I am a hateful bigot. Who knew?!

188 replies

NoChanceYouMetalBastard · 19/08/2023 21:59

This has been playing on my mind since it happened. In a pub on Thursday night just gone. Very old building - toilets not great. No separate mens/ladies. Go through one door and there are 3 cubicles for all. Everyone has to queue together in this very small space. Big queue - a 6 foot 4 ish man with a beard wearing a flowery blue dress and lipstick, who was stood behind me, suggested that we speed things up by "us girls" going in together. I refused. That led to a tirade of abuse including that I was a hateful old bigot and it was known that 'girls' always shared a loo. Obviously he told all his pals at the table he was sat at, and they loudly discussed my transphobia until I necked my drink and left. It has been bothering me ever since! Just sharing/venting more than anything.

OP posts:
Hillcrest2022 · 20/08/2023 22:24

ReginaRegina · 20/08/2023 12:57

Well of course. There are loads of men about. Transwomen are pretty rare though.

This particular example is sexual harassment and if you deny that you are pretty shameful @ReginaRegina

HootyMcBooby76 · 20/08/2023 22:35

Even if my own husband wanted to come into my cubicle I would tell him to piss off! Why the hell would any sane woman allow a perfect stranger into her cubicle, let alone a male stranger?

This was a man playing out his fetish in plain sight and involving unwilling participants, nothing more. And there will be more and more of them, because there is no protection from this behaviour for women any more.
10 years ago a man doing this would have been called out for what he was.
Now we are no longer allowed to say what he is.

But we all still know.

Rightsraptor · 20/08/2023 22:56

In the swinging 60s and into the 70s, communal changing rooms for women were very common in stores catering to the young and trendy, as I then liked to imagine I was.

I mention this because all the young men I knew would be fascinated by this and ask if it was really true that we all got changed in front of each other. Our answer was usually 'yes, it's true but you all pee in front of each other!'

Even in those comparatively innocent days, men seemed to construct fantasies about what we did together in this enclosed space. It seems to me that 6'4" beardy Dave in his blue dress and red lippy is continuing the fantasies of his father's generation.

Vintagevixen · 20/08/2023 23:04

Seriously? He expected you to validate his AGP fetish? And that's what it was, he would have got off on that no doubt. Almost certainly had a pens. Deeply creepy.

Don't waste a minute feeling at all guilty - you are not a bigot, you have boundaries and he was trying to violate them. He was a predator.

Vintagevixen · 20/08/2023 23:06

*penis obviously

RealityFan · 20/08/2023 23:14

Rightsraptor · 20/08/2023 22:56

In the swinging 60s and into the 70s, communal changing rooms for women were very common in stores catering to the young and trendy, as I then liked to imagine I was.

I mention this because all the young men I knew would be fascinated by this and ask if it was really true that we all got changed in front of each other. Our answer was usually 'yes, it's true but you all pee in front of each other!'

Even in those comparatively innocent days, men seemed to construct fantasies about what we did together in this enclosed space. It seems to me that 6'4" beardy Dave in his blue dress and red lippy is continuing the fantasies of his father's generation.

"Son, let me pass on to you the wisdom I've learnt in my long and successful career with women.
When you join a queue of them waiting to use the loo, well..."

crunchermuncher · 25/08/2023 16:35

ReginaRegina · 20/08/2023 13:00

Your apparently circular reasoning moreover suggests that anyone who reports sexual harassment by a male in traditional feminine clothing is thereby and by definition GC?

OP states she has been lurking and 'in awe' of the GC posters on here. She's not exactly entirely unaware of the debate.

Actually, she said she was in awe of the intellect. There are a variety of views expressed here, it's not a hive mind.

crunchermuncher · 25/08/2023 16:36

OP, does the pub have one of those 'ask for Angela ' signs up (if anyone causes you to feel unsafe, go to the bar and ask for Angela).

If so, you'd expect them to be interested in / act on any reports of harassment.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 25/08/2023 16:41

He was a perv op, that’s awful

TripleDaisySummer · 25/08/2023 16:49

I've never shared a toilet cubicle with another adult ever in my life - only with my own very young at time kids because you tend to have to for logistical reasons.

It's just outright weird request from start to finish.

mauvish · 25/08/2023 18:47

Many years ago I was talking to a male ex public school friend, and he said that a lot of men he knew had a fetish about wanting to watch women pee.

It struck me as v odd at the time. But not long afterwards I went for a walk in the countryside with a bloke I didn't know terribly well; I got caught short so went to find a hidden spot in the undergrowth, telling him, "Don't look!" And blow me down, I caught him doing a Peeping Tom on me!

So maybe it's true that this is a big male fetish (there's a lot of porn based around this I think?). It's sure as hell not a female thing, so Beardy was simply confirming his male-ness with this suggestion.

If I'd been sober, I might have asked him why he wanted to watch a woman pee? That might have made him squirm - but maybe not. A 6ft+ beardy in a dress obviously doesn't do embarrassment.

BabyStopCryin · 25/08/2023 18:54

Certainly won’t be a female fetish 🥴

JanesLittleGirl · 25/08/2023 19:32

I was amazed that pubs could offer unisex toilets only so I thought that I would have a look.

My first takeaway is that York is not on my list of places to visit. My casual Google wander has identified 4 pubs that are unisex only. It is possible that these are the only ones but who knows?

The only other borough that obviously has pubs with unisex toilets is Brighton. There may well be others.

What really surprised me is that there is a British Standard that covers the provision of toilet facilities in a public setting: BS 6465-1. Table 11 sets down the minimum provision of male and female toilet provisions in pubs and nightclubs. The BS says that there should be separate provision for male and female users and also lays down the quantity of facilities that should be provided. The minimum is one WC, one urinal and one handbasin for men and two wcs and two handbasins for women.

Bizarrely, the BS isn't mandatory.

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