David Tennant

[SidewaysOtter]

I’m gutted, I’m such a huge fan of his. I’ve been hugely looking forward to the second series of Good Omens.

And now this. When challenged on it, apparently he said “I’m OK, TERFs can’t climbs stairs”.

How very disappointing.

I think expecting a child to validate their father's decision to be a transwoman is totally unreasonable.

You could choose to end your marriage to a man who transitioned. What about a child? What choice do they have?

I'll recommend again reading the trans widows threads. They are eye-opening. The selfishness of these males is off the scale. And have a look at the children of transitioners blog, started by someone who was in that position.

These men are only unhappy because they're not getting to play out their sexual fantasies at home and have them validated by their wives and children.

I would have thought most marriages end and the father isn't around to play out sexual fantasies if that is what they are doing.

Of course it isn't reasonable for a child to have to validate their father's choices but it is also unreasonable to expect an adult to live unhappily forever because other family members might not like it, how many mothers or fathers end a marriage when that will distress a child? How many have affairs?

It would be ideal if the adult made the choice before becoming a parent but life isn't always ideal is it.

Would you expect your partner to live unhappily so that you can be happy or would you prefer to move on and find a healthy relationship? How many times are people on here told that a happy parent is good for a child and staying in an unhappy marriage isn't going to benefit the child.

The daughter didn't tell her story until Jan Morris was dead and couldn't comment. Funny that.

It's not funny at all. It's quite standard - e.g. Blake Morrison's 'And When Did You Last See Your Father?' or John Mortimer's 'A Voyage Round My Father'. The parent's death creates distance and avoids any potentially hurtful confrontations while the parent is alive.

Jan Morris was a good writer and her memoir Conundrum was a bestseller. However, by definition, it was written from Jan's point of view. Given that Elizabeth Morris chose to remain in a relationship with Jan, it would have been difficult for Suki Morys to publish her memoir when her father was alive without hurting one parent, if not two. Suki Morys is absolutely entitled to put her version on record. People can decide which version they want to believe.

Of course it isn't reasonable for a child to have to validate their father's choices but it is also unreasonable to expect an adult to live unhappily forever because other family members might not like it, how many mothers or fathers end a marriage when that will distress a child? How many have affairs?

Are you seriously saying that a child dealing with a parent having an affair or ending a marriage is the same as a child dealing with his father saying he is now a woman and always was? you can't see the different impacts here?

Also the comment about "funny that" that the daughter didn't give her view before her parent died. Like what would you think would have happened if she did give that point of view back in the day when Jan Morris was totally feted and lauded? Total acceptance by the Guardian and its ilk? understanding and help from Jan Morris. Come on, you can't be that naive.

It is convenient if you want to write a critical book to do it after the person you are criticising is dead. You wouldn't want them to have the right of reply would you, you can say what you like. I think it is cheap and cowardly, if you've got something to say then say it don't wait till the "victim" is dead, if you haven't got the guts to be open with them then stay quiet.

How it affects the child will depend on many things, two parents at war for years followed by a vicious divorce and custody battles is pretty damaging. One parent deciding to come out as feeling they are a woman, supportive partner, both parents working together to support the child. Or you could turn that round and have a civilised divorce but lots of rancour at the gender of one parent.

I wouldn't expect understanding from Jan Morris but a right of reply would be nice.

To suggest that Jan Morris of all people didn't get the chance to have their say while alive is ridiculous.

How can you have a say about what is said about you (or written about you) after you are dead?

If one of your kids has an issue with you would you think it better to air that while you can put your point of view or when you are silenced?

This

Families are complicated. Morris had plenty to say when alive. The daughter quite possibly felt completely silenced and only able to have her say after the fact. It's not always easy to have an open and frank conversing someone who believes their own fantasy.

Conversation with

The second series of Good Omens was a bit shite anyway.

Read that Sunday Times article again and explain which parts you think should have had a 'right of reply' for Morris.

Much of that article is Suki Morys's reply to things that her father wrote during a long writing career. This article is her reply to things that Morris wrote. She felt silenced during her father's lifetime, and now you want to silence her again because her father can no longer reply. Morris's point of view is everywhere.

Jan Morris had a long writing career and even wrote a book about transitioning. Morris's wife and daughter felt silenced while Morris was alive. Now you want them to remain silenced because Morris is no longer there to reply to them.

Suki is a brave woman to write these things about her relationship with her father, who she acknowledges several times in the article as a great writer. And you call her 'cheap and cowardly' for finally being brave enough to publish how she has suffered her entire life because of her father's selfish behaviour.

Well said.

To go back to the topic of the thread. That t-shirt and the posturing just makes me think David and Georgia Tennant are credulous twats. Pathetic and gullible. Totally lost any respect I may have had for them. Can't understand why so many celebrities can't see this sexist, regressive, homophobic cultural phenomenon and the awful impact on children and young people for what it is.

In the absence of the more talented author of the pair, is that surprising?

1. You ignore the huge power imbalance between father and daughter.
2. By your reasoning, Jimmy Saville's victims should have spoken up whilst he was alive or else stayed silent, because Saville also has no right of reply.

It's generally accepted that it was anything but shite, no doubt in part because it was co-written by the extremely talented John Finnemore.

Well don't you think it would have been better if they had felt able to speak? He could have faced justice.

Are you suggesting that Jan Morris did something criminal?

ooh really? that has persuaded me to watch it

fuck me

point two went straight over your had didn't it?

That whooshing sound above your head was my second point. It's not about criminality, it's about women having the right to speak about their own experiences regardless of whether another person involved is dead.

There was a huge power imbalance that kept Savile's victims quiet during his life. Stop and think of who benefits from your attempts to silence women from speaking about their experiences at the hands of dead powerful men.

I was thinking of the original story being co-written by Sir Pterry.

Watched the first two episodes last night, it’s good. Mr Finnemore is pretty much worshipped as a god by my eldest son.

David Tennant is also very watchable, although upstaged slightly by Michael Sheen I think

he may be an idiot but he’s a jolly good actor

How can you have a say about what is said about you (or written about you) after you are dead?

If one of your kids has an issue with you would you think it better to air that while you can put your point of view or when you are silenced?

You have no idea of the pressure on Children of Transitioners to stay silent. Shame on you for trying to silence our children further.