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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

David Tennant

356 replies

SidewaysOtter · 11/07/2023 20:02

I’m gutted, I’m such a huge fan of his. I’ve been hugely looking forward to the second series of Good Omens.

And now this. When challenged on it, apparently he said “I’m OK, TERFs can’t climbs stairs”.

How very disappointing.

David Tennant
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Rudderneck · 13/07/2023 11:56

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/07/2023 19:32

Ah thank you.

I wonder who I got him mixed up with. I definitely remember someone media about the same time who paired up with a much younger woman but did leave his wife, she was kind of backgrounded but had made the odd "it's a bit shit" type comment. The only one I can think of offhand is Dick Strawbridge but that's an unlikely mixup with DT even for me!

I believe there was a bit of news when DT partnered up with his wife, because she already had a child, who had been born when she was a teenager, if I recall correctly. I think maybe he adopted that child when they married?

Tessisme · 13/07/2023 12:26

No surprise there. He's just some bloke who acts and he doesn't, as such, have any special insight regarding the complexities of the trans debate. I'm not particularly shocked. I don't need to agree with his personal views in order to enjoy watching him spout memorised lines written by somebody else and stand where the director tells him. I'm very unimpressed that he has resorted to petty name calling.

NicCageisnotNickCave · 13/07/2023 12:38

Iwasafool · 13/07/2023 10:24

You think this is something coming from the parents not the child and it is because they want him to get a part on Casualty? Was it one episode? I think that is a bit far fetched.

Naw, this particular kid can get an acting agent (and subsequently, a bit part on Casualty) due to nepotism alone.
Mum, paternal grandad, older half brother and dad are all successful/famous actors.

The ‘nonbinary 9 year old’ bit is merely a little cherry on top of the pre-existing PR cake.

I can’t remember who it was who asked this originally but have you ever come across a self described ‘nonbinary person’ who votes for a rightwing political party or is an active participant in a traditional, conservative religion?

(And no, a ‘nonbinary AMAB’ posing in a hijab for Instagram pics doesn’t count).

Have you ever met a parent with a primary school aged ‘nonbinary child’ who isn’t a leftie, luvvy, liberal, middle class type of person?

Ever since transsexuality became a clinical diagnosis, people diagnosed with transsexualism have existed across all political leanings and religions.

Perhaps transsexuality is a physiological condition caused by trauma (extreme disassociation from the traumatised self leading to a reinvention as an entirely new person)…

perhaps it’s a partly subconscious social-sexual strategy (a survival strategy for innately gender nonconforming homosexuals living in homophobic environments)…

perhaps it’s a paraphillia…

but it’s most likely all three (and imo those three different versions of cross sex identity should be separated out, not just lumped in together)

Whatever the medical diagnosis of transsexuality historically was, it clearly wasn’t a political identity and in some (rare) cases, it still isn’t.

But ‘nonbinary people’ are ALWAYS on the political left.

In fact, outside of certain factions of the political left, no one really believes that nonbinary people actually exist, at least, not as a meaningful, observable material category.

(We know that everyone is male or female, it’s just very occasionally a baby is born with atypical characteristics and requires a few extra tests to accurately determine which sex category they belong to)

So to be a ‘nonbinary person’ is to be a person with a self declared political identity…

… and If a 9 year old child has declared a political identity it must have been imprinted on them by the adults around them, parents, teachers, social media influencers, watching Drag Race etc.

Junior school aged children just aren’t developmentally sophisticated enough to have arrived at a political identity by themselves, they are little sponges, extremely prone to social influence but not yet capable of impulse control or critical thought. That’s why one minute they are all mad for Pokémon cards and the next they are all mad for Magic the Gathering cards.

And this is why we don’t let children vote.

NicCageisnotNickCave · 13/07/2023 12:45

Rudderneck · 13/07/2023 11:56

I believe there was a bit of news when DT partnered up with his wife, because she already had a child, who had been born when she was a teenager, if I recall correctly. I think maybe he adopted that child when they married?

That’s right.

The son (Ty) that preexisted the marriage and was later legally adopted by DT is now a young adult…

And an actor:

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm6122080/

Ty Tennant | Actor

Known for: Tolkien, Doom Patrol, House of the Dragon

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm6122080/

IveHadItUpToHere · 13/07/2023 14:15

He did wear the tshirt. He didn't say TERFS can't climb stairs - that was a parody account.
He has been showing support to transpeople for ages because his DC is NB. He didn't need to call everyone else freaks. I just think it was arrogant and selfish of him. He'd never have worn such a contentious top when he first became Doctor Who - but he's fine to do it now and overshadow the Good Omens photo call - pull the next series of Doctor Who into it, etc. I've always liked him but, on this, he's a dick. He's affecting his co-stars. He's showing his ignorance of the issues. And he's giving ammumition to the people who retweet convicted murderers and threaten violence against women.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 16:09

SidewaysOtter · 11/07/2023 20:02

I’m gutted, I’m such a huge fan of his. I’ve been hugely looking forward to the second series of Good Omens.

And now this. When challenged on it, apparently he said “I’m OK, TERFs can’t climbs stairs”.

How very disappointing.

A small part of me has just died. I was also looking forward to Good Omens series two.

Hepwo · 13/07/2023 16:52

I thought Good Omens was disappointing in the end.

There was such a big character build up but then it just ended up a silly fight in a village at the end.

What am I missing?

Apart from the point of the 🧵😀

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 13/07/2023 17:53

For many GC people their whole position / point IS leave trans kids alone

Exactly this. Let kids experiment, accept them for who they are, not label them and convince them they need to change!

IveHadItUpToHere · 13/07/2023 22:27

Tbh we know lots of DCs who are NB. It's everywhere. But the parents we know took a position of benign disinterest or explained if NB is rejecting sexist stereotypes then everyone is NB. After a few months - at most a year - the DCs quietly dropped the NB label.
I think when parents make a big fuss about it and adopt the identity of 'parent to someone who is NB' it makes it much more difficult for the DCs to step away from it.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 13/07/2023 23:32

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 16:09

A small part of me has just died. I was also looking forward to Good Omens series two.

Again, he didnt say that. A fan run Twitter account said that.
Not him, so you don't have to die inside a little at the thought.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/07/2023 00:24

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 13/07/2023 23:32

Again, he didnt say that. A fan run Twitter account said that.
Not him, so you don't have to die inside a little at the thought.

He still called GC people freaks. The t-shirt is understandable, given his child, but calling people he disagrees with a slur that has been foisted on me all my life because of my autism is unacceptable.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 14/07/2023 00:30

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/07/2023 00:24

He still called GC people freaks. The t-shirt is understandable, given his child, but calling people he disagrees with a slur that has been foisted on me all my life because of my autism is unacceptable.

Fair enough, can understand why you hate it , and can't stand the word myself either, think it's an awful word - was just saying he didn't say the can't climb stairs quote, it was becoming a bit like the FWR equivalent of cancel the cheque 🙂

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 14/07/2023 08:10

IveHadItUpToHere · 13/07/2023 22:27

Tbh we know lots of DCs who are NB. It's everywhere. But the parents we know took a position of benign disinterest or explained if NB is rejecting sexist stereotypes then everyone is NB. After a few months - at most a year - the DCs quietly dropped the NB label.
I think when parents make a big fuss about it and adopt the identity of 'parent to someone who is NB' it makes it much more difficult for the DCs to step away from it.

So true. I met someone who asks her child their pronouns every morning, I mean, why??

Froodwithatowel · 14/07/2023 08:38

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 14/07/2023 08:10

So true. I met someone who asks her child their pronouns every morning, I mean, why??

Because the parent is meeting their own needs using the child as a tool to do so.

What needs exactly are being met are the variable and debatable bit.

IvyTwines · 30/07/2023 21:39

Thousands of fangirls currently squeeing with joy on Twitter because Tennant's wife used the word 'their' rather than 'his' in a post and these girls think that means David is now a they/them, oh joy, oh rapture. Well, he's going to have to be 'non-binary' henceforth lest they accuse him of theybaiting.

Someone really needs to make a mainstream documentary on the role of fantasy show fandom in the spread of 'trans identification' amongst teenage girls.

Iwasafool · 30/07/2023 22:06

OldCrone · 13/07/2023 11:13

No.

But can you answer my questions?

Sorry it was @WhichWitchWillBeWhich who suggested it.

I was listening to Jan Morris's book Venice on radio 4 today. Jan Morris was born in 1926 and had gender reassignment in 1974 but first realised she should have been a girl at 3 or 4. I can't imagine where that idea came from.

Iwasafool · 30/07/2023 22:10

NicCageisnotNickCave · 13/07/2023 12:38

Naw, this particular kid can get an acting agent (and subsequently, a bit part on Casualty) due to nepotism alone.
Mum, paternal grandad, older half brother and dad are all successful/famous actors.

The ‘nonbinary 9 year old’ bit is merely a little cherry on top of the pre-existing PR cake.

I can’t remember who it was who asked this originally but have you ever come across a self described ‘nonbinary person’ who votes for a rightwing political party or is an active participant in a traditional, conservative religion?

(And no, a ‘nonbinary AMAB’ posing in a hijab for Instagram pics doesn’t count).

Have you ever met a parent with a primary school aged ‘nonbinary child’ who isn’t a leftie, luvvy, liberal, middle class type of person?

Ever since transsexuality became a clinical diagnosis, people diagnosed with transsexualism have existed across all political leanings and religions.

Perhaps transsexuality is a physiological condition caused by trauma (extreme disassociation from the traumatised self leading to a reinvention as an entirely new person)…

perhaps it’s a partly subconscious social-sexual strategy (a survival strategy for innately gender nonconforming homosexuals living in homophobic environments)…

perhaps it’s a paraphillia…

but it’s most likely all three (and imo those three different versions of cross sex identity should be separated out, not just lumped in together)

Whatever the medical diagnosis of transsexuality historically was, it clearly wasn’t a political identity and in some (rare) cases, it still isn’t.

But ‘nonbinary people’ are ALWAYS on the political left.

In fact, outside of certain factions of the political left, no one really believes that nonbinary people actually exist, at least, not as a meaningful, observable material category.

(We know that everyone is male or female, it’s just very occasionally a baby is born with atypical characteristics and requires a few extra tests to accurately determine which sex category they belong to)

So to be a ‘nonbinary person’ is to be a person with a self declared political identity…

… and If a 9 year old child has declared a political identity it must have been imprinted on them by the adults around them, parents, teachers, social media influencers, watching Drag Race etc.

Junior school aged children just aren’t developmentally sophisticated enough to have arrived at a political identity by themselves, they are little sponges, extremely prone to social influence but not yet capable of impulse control or critical thought. That’s why one minute they are all mad for Pokémon cards and the next they are all mad for Magic the Gathering cards.

And this is why we don’t let children vote.

My kids went to school with a boy who was always considered very effeminate. I met up with him again when he was an adult and had transitioned. Not a left wing family in the slightest. That was in the 70s so things might have changed.

OldCrone · 30/07/2023 22:20

Iwasafool · 30/07/2023 22:06

Sorry it was @WhichWitchWillBeWhich who suggested it.

I was listening to Jan Morris's book Venice on radio 4 today. Jan Morris was born in 1926 and had gender reassignment in 1974 but first realised she should have been a girl at 3 or 4. I can't imagine where that idea came from.

Before having surgery, Morris married a woman and fathered her children. Morris's daughter Suki Morys has quite an interesting story to tell about her father.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jan-morris-was-a-trans-pioneer-and-a-cruel-parent-9x82s5cg9

Middle aged male transitioners always have a tale about how they wanted to be a girl from the time they were toddlers. Of course by that time their parents are usually no longer around to confirm or deny. Their wives often are though, and they generally have quite a different take.

Jan Morris was a trans pioneer — and a cruel parent

The reporter and travel writer’s gender reassignment caused a sensation in the 1970s, but at home she refused to answer her children’s questions. The Jan they knew was neglectful, bullying and sexist, writes her daughter Suki Morys

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jan-morris-was-a-trans-pioneer-and-a-cruel-parent-9x82s5cg9

Rudderneck · 30/07/2023 23:15

Iwasafool · 30/07/2023 22:10

My kids went to school with a boy who was always considered very effeminate. I met up with him again when he was an adult and had transitioned. Not a left wing family in the slightest. That was in the 70s so things might have changed.

Boys who went on to transition in the 70 and 80s were most often gay men who were in some way unable to reconcile themselves to that. Often from rather conservative backgrounds or places.

I know a transwoman who transitioned in 1980, at age 40 - very much that story, lived a life as a gay man, from a very Catholic background, left home early and never went back, mainly attracted to straight men.

It's quite different now. A lot of the young boys seemed to be pushed by a parent, usually the mother. Who may see the boy as being effeminate, like with Jazz Jennings, though we might reasonably question whether a three year old liking dressing up is really effeminacy.

Iwasafool · 31/07/2023 22:31

OldCrone · 30/07/2023 22:20

Before having surgery, Morris married a woman and fathered her children. Morris's daughter Suki Morys has quite an interesting story to tell about her father.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jan-morris-was-a-trans-pioneer-and-a-cruel-parent-9x82s5cg9

Middle aged male transitioners always have a tale about how they wanted to be a girl from the time they were toddlers. Of course by that time their parents are usually no longer around to confirm or deny. Their wives often are though, and they generally have quite a different take.

The daughter didn't tell her story until Jan Morris was dead and couldn't comment. Funny that.

I'm sure middle aged male transitioners know more about when they wanted to be a girl with far more accuracy than people on here.

OldCrone · 31/07/2023 22:36

Iwasafool · 31/07/2023 22:31

The daughter didn't tell her story until Jan Morris was dead and couldn't comment. Funny that.

I'm sure middle aged male transitioners know more about when they wanted to be a girl with far more accuracy than people on here.

Yes, the wives and children of these men often feel that they can't speak out. It's a very difficult position for them to be in. If you want to know more about late transitioning heterosexual males I recommend reading the trans widows threads on here. There is also a website for children of transitioners which is very informative for those of us lucky enough not to be in that position.

Iwasafool · 31/07/2023 22:37

Rudderneck · 30/07/2023 23:15

Boys who went on to transition in the 70 and 80s were most often gay men who were in some way unable to reconcile themselves to that. Often from rather conservative backgrounds or places.

I know a transwoman who transitioned in 1980, at age 40 - very much that story, lived a life as a gay man, from a very Catholic background, left home early and never went back, mainly attracted to straight men.

It's quite different now. A lot of the young boys seemed to be pushed by a parent, usually the mother. Who may see the boy as being effeminate, like with Jazz Jennings, though we might reasonably question whether a three year old liking dressing up is really effeminacy.

One of mine always wanted to dress as a girl at 3 and 4, he grew out of it. I think, and it is my experience, that not making a fuss either way is the best way to go. I wouldn't have tried to stop him wearing a dress he liked but at the same time I wouldn't encourage him to think it is a problem that can be "cured" medically or surgically.

Iwasafool · 31/07/2023 22:40

OldCrone · 31/07/2023 22:36

Yes, the wives and children of these men often feel that they can't speak out. It's a very difficult position for them to be in. If you want to know more about late transitioning heterosexual males I recommend reading the trans widows threads on here. There is also a website for children of transitioners which is very informative for those of us lucky enough not to be in that position.

It's difficult, if you are the child (of whatever age) having a parent change gender is going to be difficult and if you are the partner it would be a drastic change but do their feelings matter more than the person who feels they need to change. There isn't really a compromise that is going to make everyone feel OK.

If my husband decided to transition I'd consider the marriage over as the person I married would no longer exist but I wouldn't expect him to live unhappily to make things easier for me.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 31/07/2023 22:46

someone who wants to spent their life role playing as something they are not, and moreover to try to force others to pretend to go along with their role play is simply not a reliable witness

EnfysPreseli · 31/07/2023 22:51

Iwasafool · 31/07/2023 22:31

The daughter didn't tell her story until Jan Morris was dead and couldn't comment. Funny that.

I'm sure middle aged male transitioners know more about when they wanted to be a girl with far more accuracy than people on here.

Suki Morys has said that they weren't allowed to talk about it, and it wouldn't have been appropriate before Jan's death anyway. It's known that that journalists only used to approach one of her brothers who would always gave the official line after their father had died. Elizabeth Morris has had dementia for many years. Others who knew them, and many who had met Jan (including me) don't see Suki's account to the Times as surprising. Jan was a perfect example of the difference between transwomen and women.