Horrible news story

[MumblesParty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-66107716

And I can't help wondering if the "women" assailants are actually women.
Poor kid.

And yet men who have never undergone girlhood or female puberty seem to know that "they are women". How do they know what being a woman "feels like"?

All they know is that they don't want to be men - that's an entirely different thing.

Anyway - back ion track. If these two abusers are caught, and are found NOT to have been born with male genitalia, I will eat a Jack Monroe "lingereenie".

Yes oldcrone.

It felt like grasping sand most of the time in that conversation. I suspect a very confused person, who thought they were well educated and articulate, was posting.

I will post studies etc.

But I suspect that evie is like some others who have journeyed through these conversations. That they do know biological sex doesn’t change, and that women do need sex based provisions and protections. BUT, that they are so caught up in the emotional side due to their friends that they really cannot reconcile what they know with being the kind of person that evie wants to feel they are. The inconsistencies are there and very easy to be seen.

It is a version of ‘you are right, but you can’t say it that way- that is mean’. And ‘I agree women need to be protected, there is a compromise to be had but you just haven’t looked for it’!!!

When, yes, we are blunt- it is great to be able to say something and have it clearly understood.

And yes, been there done all the work on solutions, and nothing suggested was accepted.

I think if evieowlette did what many of us did and lurked and read first, then they might have had intelligent conversations yesterday. There is agreeance there, but the prejudice held by evieowlette about women on this board will not allow them to see that.

Re NHS- there is a long thread running on MN right now in which a woman with bile duct cancer has had to pay to fly to a different part of the UK and pay for private treatment in order to receive adequate pain relief and give herself a chance of surviving longer, as the NHS in her area were unwilling/unable to give the care she urgently needs. How anyone could think this same NHS should be paying for unnecessary surgery on healthy bodies is baffling.

'Cis' is considered offensive on this board. This is from the mumsnet guidelines for this part of the site:

many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but our moderation team will most likely delete these expressions if we feel they're being used in a deliberately inflammatory way.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

We didn't make these rules, mumsnet did. These rules are for everyone posting here, whether you like it or not.

😂

Light relief!

Thank heavens!

It's strange.

I must have met 000s of people in my life, and I've been able to identify the SEX of every one of them without staring - or even glancing - at their genitals. Sometimes I don't even need to see a face or hear a voice - I can tell by a stance or a gait what SEX someone is.

It's almost as though nature designed men and women to be physiologically different somehow . . . 🤔

Just getting back to the reported assault, there doesn't seem to have been any further clarification or any response whatsoever from Sussex police despite the large number of people requesting more information. Something is seriously wrong when a child has been violently assaulted and instead of giving clear details and descriptions of the alleged attackers, the general public are left wondering if this assault was committed by males or females. It is so fucked up.

But if, as evie seems to think, men and women are so similar that nobody can tell the difference between them without 'staring at [their] genitals', why does anyone need to 'transition' at all? And what does it mean to live as the opposite sex if we're all so similar already and nobody can distinguish accurately between the sexes?

So many contradictions.

They have done this to themselves with shitty reporting of things. It's so ridiculous we are questoninng a police suspect description because the police can no longer be trusted to tell the truth even when it would actually help them to find the individuals concerned.

It's got to stop. And its all so unfair on the lad who was sexually assaulted. His case is getting so much more attention than it needed to get all because of past lies by police and news outlets.

And that was a quick deletion by mnhq!

Now, that will do. You have delighted us long enough.

😂

Kudos!

It's got to stop. And its all so unfair on the lad who was sexually assaulted. His case is getting so much more attention than it needed to get all because of past lies by police and news outlets.

I agree. Poor boy will become the object of a lot of unwanted attention and prurient interest.

There should be an accurate description of these foul individuals, even if it has to include things like "two women (estimated heights) possibly born male".

Obfuscating information helps no-one except the offenders.

Indeed . . . mystery upon mystery.

Life with the 🤡🐟🐠🐡

Oops, there you go being all transphobic again.

You do realise even saying you might want a single sex space at some point in an unknown future is bigoted right?

I dont know why you would need to stare at genitals to figure out anyone's sex. Women are hard wired by evolution and lived experience to figure out a man in a nano second.

Who called bingo? You got it.

Or hit them right at the core and just ban transitioning entirely. That doesn't sound familiar to other recent bills passed in America at all. Oh it will still happen but who cares you don't like change. Not like Trans Women have been entering women's bathrooms for years already without issues it's just the recent influx of ones who don't pass as women who suck. Oh but we can't make it easier for them to transition through the NHS and obtain a proper biological transition because that would be bad for some reason

Yep I agree with banning transitioning for children, once they reach adulthood they are free to do whatever.
Transwomen yes have been entering our bogs since forever. Yet not one asked if we were ok with that. Turns out now, we are no longer ok with that. So they need to stop now.
There is no "proper biological transition" because no matter what, you cannot change sex.

Also transitioning is bad. Remove safety and protections for vital surgeries such as mastectomy's and watch as Trans Masc people flock to other countries for surgery or try to perform it themselves. A bit like how most
Trans Women have to trust DIY sources of Estrogen that haven't been properly chemically tested in a laboratory despite nearly every other developed country in the world having a better more efficient system

Is it some kind of hardship to go to other countries for things trans people might need? But it's ok for women in England, Ireland and Wales to have to travel to Edinburgh in another country for single sex rape crisis?

If it's so great in other countries for trans people maybe you should start a charity to enable that. It would be a lot more use than scolding women on a mostly UK forum to think critically.

I spotted a young man with blue hair ( in the university district of my city) presenting as a woman yesterday. I could tell from several hundred meters away he was male. His whole body language and walk was male.

As he passed further down the road lots of other people clearly recognised him as male too - in fact several turned round after he had passed by - as if to confirm what they already knew. You can always tell.

When you weirdly decided to share when and where you went to school despite no-one asking for that information you said you were at school 6 years ago. That means you were born in 1999 at the earliest. That makes you gen Z. Millennials were born in the 80's and early 90s.

My friend's son had been dressing in women's clothes for almost four years now,he's grown his hair and usually wears a very short skirt and colourful tights.
My friend is convinced that he passes because he resembles her,but he's very tall(almost 6'6")and the way he walks is 100% male.

The fact is these people are going to get away with it, because most people won’t read beyond the headlines and the narrative that 2 giant women attacked this poor boy will be believed, whilst these two men have removed their wigs and are hiding in blind sight.

Quick name change to respond to this post. I am 6'2". I have never had an issue with my height until the last 4 or 5 years. Now I'm forever hearing stuff like this - giant women . It's especially noticeable in the discussion around males in female sport, photos of 6' tall men 'towering above' the women.

I'm not slim either, so comments about huge 15 stone 'women' playing in female teams have done more to make me feel uncomfortable in my own skin than decades of 'Oh, aren't you tall', 'what's the weather like up there' and not being able to find long enough trousers.

I've also been on the receiving end of a few side eyes when using women's loos.

So the issues are affecting me from a completely different angle.

I am very much GC, but women (natal ones) come in all shapes and sizes. We're not all 5'4" and a size 10.

NC fail Never mind. I'll be my authentic self.

I think this man must be new to presenting - he fumbles for words occasionally - but this is an interesting example of how the transcommunity is being effectively protected and distanced for anything unsavoury. Two presentations of the incident are followed by his thoughts (at about 12.30), where he states how people who would normally celebrate TW are stepping back from applying that term when it suits them to do so.

Sussex Police tweeted that the description came from the victim.

Given that a 6’3” woman with red hair shouldn’t be that hard to find, that leaves us with:

1. Sussex Police aren’t very good at tracking down suspects.
2. Sussex Police has lied about the sex of the assailant(s).
3. The victim has said the assailant(s) are women because he’s afraid of being seen as transphobic or he really does believe TWAW.

My DD is also a tall woman - a whisper under 6' - but she is very aware that she is unusually tall for a female.

It's not that very tall women (and very short men) don't exist - we know this, but the likelihood is that if an individual is unusually tall, they are most probably male.