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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Police withdraw stalking protection order application against Caroline Farrow

431 replies

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 23/06/2023 08:45

Or rather their barrister does. The case somehow got as far as court without the police giving Caroline's representations to the barrister. Once he read them he declined to proceeed.

https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1671854328485691392?

https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1672117973862039552?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 02/08/2023 13:05

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 11:39

Just a quick look at the recent ones I have posted on:

Police asking for an apology from ds
Mould from cannabis farm, what to do?
Police response times
Driving while on Nitrous Oxide
Diversion for the man who face punched an elderly lady
Pregnant police officer
Why would an ambulance have blue lights but no sirens on
Motorbikes in pedestrian areas and parks
Car stolen... weird

Fair play, in that case, I don't read all of them.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 02/08/2023 13:07

There was, in my view, some extremely biased language in the application, mainly trying to frame Caroline as some mad right - wing fascist transphobe. Once her submissions were looked at, the case disintegrated, so what does that tell you? Clearly the order shouldn't have made it to application stage

Coutts Effect strikes again

SlightlyShostakovich · 02/08/2023 13:08

Which begs the question. How far upwards does this toxicity go?

@Pixiedust1234, that's a question I really want to find out the answer to. I had high hopes of Lisa Townsend the Surrey Police & Crime Commissioner when she very publicly binned off Stonewall, and was then the co-operative subject of a cracking article in the Mail on Sunday by Jo Bartosche two years ago (linked). She subsequently fought off a challenge from the Surrey crime panel that included the odious Crispin Blunt MP.

A number of other English PCCs came out in public support of her position.

Townsend knows the dangers of 'capture'. So I'll bet my pocket money that somewhere along the line she has been briefed by someone that has misrepresented the reputational risk to her office in a disingenuous way. That position has to fall apart at some point, as it's not a stable situation - her officers cannot keep their PCC away from the facts forever.

Meanwhile I'm wondering who she has been spending most time with, as she's not normally swayed by 'alternative facts'. She'll have a weekly briefing with the Chief Constable and senior officers - that's routine - so I'd be looking at them as a pretty big problem in putting her at reputational risk like this if I were ever asked to give an opinion.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9915637/New-Surrey-Police-Commissioner-attacks-Stonewall-promoting-dangerous-transgender-ideology.html

Surrey Police Commissioner: Stonewall pushes dangerous trans ideology

Lisa Townsend, newly elected Conservative Police and Crime Commissioner for Surrey, is demanding that Surrey Police stop employing Stonewall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9915637/New-Surrey-Police-Commissioner-attacks-Stonewall-promoting-dangerous-transgender-ideology.html

DifficultBloodyWoman · 02/08/2023 13:13

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 13:03

I would hope the Officer (Wiggum is a she BTW) has been reprimanded in some form.

Just before the Stalking Order went to court, they said they had not read Caroline's submissions, i.e. evidence was on their desk which was not looked at whilst, oddly, the complainant's was included. There was, in my view, some extremely biased language in the application, mainly trying to frame Caroline as some mad right - wing fascist transphobe. Once her submissions were looked at, the case disintegrated, so what does that tell you? Clearly the order shouldn't have made it to application stage.

And now, people who pay taxes have to foot the 7000 plus bill that Surrey ran up all because they couldn't be bothered to look at one party's evidence.

A she? That is disappointing. Have you met her? Is ‘she’ her chosen pronoun or the pronoun that you and I would naturally and automatically use?

It is outrageous that taxpayers have to pay for this. The only thing worse would be Caroline paying but she is already doing that in other ways. Very unfair!

LarkLane · 02/08/2023 13:19

The nub of it in these cases, ( I'm speaking generally, not about the case in the OP ) is that we have misogynists, some with serious criminal convictions, some in the police service itself, who know how to play the law to shut down women.

There are a lot of bit players in supporting roles in this, including on this thread. Smoke and mirrors. Step over the diversion.

Most women of FWR know as fact that there is a serial litigant ( amongst others) who sets up company after company as part of a grift.This person's criminal convictions preclude them from being listed with the Law Society or Council of Licensed Conveyancers (for example). So the generic term "lawyer" is used to befuddle those who don't know these things.

In my view, frustrated by a criminal record from getting a proper job, the cunning plan B was to adopt a protected persona as a means to hide the past by name change (unsuccessful), and as means to gain financially. That's how Bobble Hat lives. Always attempting to silence those who are brave enough to highlight the murky past, question thinking and behaviour, and highlight exploitation of that protected characteristic. Quite simply, there is money to be made, women to silence. There is no genuine concern about minority " rights" that I've ever seen from that person.

Punishment by cop appears to be part of BH's modus operandi. The weakness, stupidity, pomposity, and complicity, in this broken policing system, is an effective tool. Knowing the system and using it. This person hides behind the skirts of an adopted persona relying upon Officer Dibble to be over enthusiastic, poorly trained in this area, and over stretched. One who hates women is doubtless a jackpot bonus.

101 is full of callers claiming to have been "disrespected on Facebook" who never get anywhere except a "nob off" - to use a local unofficial police term.

Why the exceptional treatment if we go back to the cases FWR are familiar with? Because those complainants know how to exploit the system, and are aided in doing it, both knowingly and unwittingly, in my view.

The only way to deal with this type of person is to let the sunlight fall on what lives under the stones. Know the law, know your rights. Complain about what's happened to you. Make as much noise about what's happened as you can. Certainly don't take advice from someone purporting to be a policeman on FWR recommending a voluntary interview on your own without a solicitor.

As ever, it's left to women of courage to speak out as they've done for thousands of years. They are still paying a heavy price.

We are with you, we go to your meetings, we listen to you, we learn, and we are proud of you, and we know how hard this road has been for you.

Pixiedust1234 · 02/08/2023 13:23

I would hope the Officer (Wiggum is a she BTW) has been reprimanded in some form.
She as in biological woman.
She as in not biological woman.
She as in non binary but you can use she pronouns, but could still be a biological woman.
She as in the cat's mother. (If yes, then it's a whole new set of questions regarding furries).

?

AlisonDonut · 02/08/2023 13:26

Very senior managers are responsible for managing departments.

No shit, Sherlock.

Pixiedust1234 · 02/08/2023 13:26

She as in non binary but you can use she pronouns, but could still NOT* be a biological woman.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 02/08/2023 13:31

She as in the cat's mother. (If yes, then it's a whole new set of questions regarding furries).

🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣

DifficultBloodyWoman · 02/08/2023 13:32

When I wrote my response navigating pronouns, I was trying very, very hard not to use the phrase ‘real woman’.

Needmoresleep · 02/08/2023 13:36

Felix is full of reasons why the police are dragging out this process.

No acknowledgement that the delays will be tortuous for Caroline.

No humanity.

If he is a police officer it would be great if he could confirm that the majority of his colleagues are likely to share his views/approach.

Brefugee · 02/08/2023 13:37

i think that was referring to officer (wiggum?) rather than the complainant. And the point was that the police office (wiggum?) is a woman. Because it's one of those things, when we think "police officer" we so often think of a man. I don't think there is or was any intention to muddy the waters of biological sex there.

I think the Sorry Police (sorry not sorry) PCC is waiting to see how the entirety of this plays out and is no longer an active case in court before making any sort of pronouncement on it. I don't blame her, tbh.

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 13:38

A biological she of limited intelligence. Personally, I think the omission of Caroline's submissions was an attempt to smuggle the order through since nearly all of them are approved. Now I've checked what I can say without a police whinge I'm off to Tweet :-]

DogsAkimbo · 02/08/2023 13:47

Needmoresleep · 02/08/2023 13:36

Felix is full of reasons why the police are dragging out this process.

No acknowledgement that the delays will be tortuous for Caroline.

No humanity.

If he is a police officer it would be great if he could confirm that the majority of his colleagues are likely to share his views/approach.

He can’t, he told us that he always works alone and therefore has never seen any misogyny. So he wouldn’t be able to tell us about any other police officer’s views.

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 13:51

I should also add that Lisa Townsend's remarks were likely because she was on acting on information from Surrey Chief Constable who would have been briefed by Wiggum. Surrey police trusted that Wiggum had done her job properly but Wiggum didn't even cite Caroline's answers during the first interview in her application. They had chapter & verse and did not take it into account.

Note Lisa Townsend's more subdued remarks once the order was binned. She was duped.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 13:52

AlisonDonut ·
Very senior managers are responsible for managing departments.
No shit, Sherlock.

That's why they wont be taking on the actual case personally and become the OIC. It was in answer to another poster

Needmoresleep
I totally agree that its torturous for Caroline and should be dealt with as soon as possible. Its not acceptable that she is put through this at all. And if it is a vexatious complaint, then the reporting person should be charged.

That's why we need a load more officers to deal with cases. That's why we should be kicking back on safeguarding, cell watches, missing from homes, mental health concerns, CPS wanting full files before they review them etc etc.

But at present, this is where we are at. If the OIC sets their stall out and just concentrates on Caroline's case to get it concluded asap - then the other 15-20 complainants/victims on their queue will complain that they are being ignored. The emergency call which goes un-answered will complain theat they have had no response to their emergency, CPS kick a file back because its not fully complete despite it having no effect on the decision. etc etc.

And yes my colleagues would agree - as we are all in the same boat. Police officers on here have often shared similar issues.

DrLouiseJMoody
Was her interview no submitted as a submission of her defence?

Needmoresleep · 02/08/2023 13:54

Brefugee · 02/08/2023 13:37

i think that was referring to officer (wiggum?) rather than the complainant. And the point was that the police office (wiggum?) is a woman. Because it's one of those things, when we think "police officer" we so often think of a man. I don't think there is or was any intention to muddy the waters of biological sex there.

I think the Sorry Police (sorry not sorry) PCC is waiting to see how the entirety of this plays out and is no longer an active case in court before making any sort of pronouncement on it. I don't blame her, tbh.

I am hoping for a scenario like:

PCC..are you sure
Police...yes our investigating office has done her homework and is very sure.
PCC..OK, it is not my job to interfere with active investigations. I will bide my time, see how it turns out, and then lets discuss.

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 14:00

No, Caroline's interview answers were not included in the application. Again, I don't consider this a mere oversight.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 14:08

DrLouiseJMoody

Was it questioned at the first hearing as to why that was not the case, or was it a case she went 'no reply' in interview?

Was the adjournment invoked by the court for the defence/interview answers to be submitted?

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 14:09

She did not go no comment on everything and explained very clearly her perspective. That perspective was then omitted from the application.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 14:17

If that 'perspective' was relevant to the SPO application - then it should have been submitted.

I take it that is what the adjournment was for.

Thelnebriati · 02/08/2023 14:23

Lets all remind ourselves not to be baited into saying too much. That wouldn't be helpful. Eyes in the prize, people.

Felix should stop asking so many questions about the specifics of the case, imo. Wait until its over and done with.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 14:23

Needmoresleep
No humanity.

Just to mention - this board doesn't seem to be one which has a lot of humanity in any case.

I have been repeatedly told to F* Off, had other forms of abuse thrown at me, been called 'a pig' which only one person called it out as wrong. And as a few posters on here have said - if you don't call it out are you complicit in it?

So surly humanity should work both ways?

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 14:25

Thelnebriati
The SPO application is over and done with.

Thelnebriati · 02/08/2023 14:26

Is the rest of the case concluded?