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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Police withdraw stalking protection order application against Caroline Farrow

431 replies

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 23/06/2023 08:45

Or rather their barrister does. The case somehow got as far as court without the police giving Caroline's representations to the barrister. Once he read them he declined to proceeed.

https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1671854328485691392?

https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1672117973862039552?

OP posts:
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8
SlightlyShostakovich · 02/08/2023 14:28

So surly humanity should work both ways?

I don’t think I like the sound of your surly humanity, Felix.

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 14:34

A decision will be made whether it's going to the CPS at the end of August.

At this point, it's difficult to know what case Surrey can make. The binned order made much of Caroline having 39 saved tweets on her phone oblivious as to why she had them (and 39 is a fraction of what's posted about her), namely, she's been sued three times and reported to the police previously. Of course you save anything relevant to the case.

I'm expecting a complaint to be made about me over these posts but I'm not disclosing anything confidential, acting at Caroline's behest, and have, insofar as the complainant goes, confined myself to publicly available information - indeed, their own words. Taking a view about the case based on what I've seen is neither contempt nor prejudicing it.

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 14:41

*meant to say NOT acting at Caroline's behest before anyone starts!

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 14:50

DrLouiseJMoody
It depends on what the reporting person has said and what evidence they have to offer.

If "....A decision will be made whether it's going to the CPS at the end of August...." it possible that they are still waiting the downloads to come back.

If it gets sent to CPS at the end of August, it could be another month before they make a decision.

SlightlyShostakovich
So do you think humanity should work both ways?
Is it acceptable for me to just accept the abuse on here?

LarkLane · 02/08/2023 15:03

Re August. Even If the CPS prosecutor decides the case doesn't pass their legal tests, my understanding is that the "victim/s" have a right to ask the CPS to look at their decision again.

So a different prosecutor has to review the evidence and decide whether the original decision was correct, or should be overturned.

She or he then has to let the " victim" know the review outcome with an explanation of their decision.

So, unfortunately, this could continue to roll on for some time past August.

DarkDayforMN · 02/08/2023 15:05

The binned order made much of Caroline having 39 saved tweets on her phone

Just to clarify, these were tweets by someone else referencing Caroline?

I mean even if there wasn’t a court case, isn’t documenting that kind of harassment exactly what you’re supposed to do?

How do you descend to the nadir of misogyny where a man sends hostile tweets about a woman 39 times, and the woman privately documents it, and you conclude the woman is in the wrong?

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 15:11

Yes, the 39 tweets were made by someone else about her (and the actual number is, I'd wager, several hundred). I've a folder of posts about me made during various litigation / cases, and because lies were posted about my wife that my then solicitor dealt with. It's not stalking to save posts trashing you if said posts are relevant to a case.

The issue is not that Caroline had saved some tweets but that those tweets were made in the first place.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 15:23

DarkDayforMN
How do you descend to the nadir of misogyny where a man sends hostile tweets about a woman 39 times, and the woman privately documents it, and you conclude the woman is in the wrong?

I don't think they have said that. the 36 tweets may form part of the evidence for or against the original reporting person. But it will depend what the original reporting person has stated and what evidence they have to offer.

LarkLane
So, unfortunately, this could continue to roll on for some time past August.

Indeed - such is lunacy of the current process.

We used to have a CPS lawyer who was based in the police station and you could go to them early on in a case - such as the day you received the report. You could discuss it with the CPS lawyer and they could bin the case there and then or advise you as to what they want if it is to go to court.

Now, they won't even consider it unless everything is there and every 'i' is dotted and every 't' is crossed.

It just causes more and more delays - which is causing more and more stress for all involved such as Caroline.

Pixiedust1234 · 02/08/2023 15:27

Is it acceptable for me to just accept the abuse on here?
Sometimes I wonder how anybody cannot see irony or be that self unaware. Then I remember this is the Internet and anybody can pretend anything they like, for any reason they like.

I'm still baffled why anybody would keep posting against the flow of threads and continuously and never "read the room". Actually scratch that, baffled isn't the correct term. I know why (now). Should I actually be thankful my eyes have been well and truly opened?

Anyway I digress again (I'm getting better, really!), many thanks for keeping us updated Louise, stay safe Flowers

Transparent2 · 02/08/2023 15:42

@Felix125 Is it acceptable for me to just accept the abuse on here?

Here’s some unsolicited advice:

If someone posts something you find abusive on MN, report it and then try to forget about it.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 15:47

Pixiedust1234
What irony - where have I been abusive to others on here?
But I should just accept it aimed at me?

I'm 'posting against the flow of threads' as some of the posts on those threads I disagree with. Its a discussion forum after all.

Or do you want a discussion forum where everyone just automatically agrees with everyone else? Wont be much of a discussion.

Transparent2
Here’s some unsolicited advice:
If someone posts something you find abusive on MN, report it and then try to forget about it.

I do. But it doesn't make it right though does it.
And if people are suggesting that I show no humanity, then what about these abusive posters who aim things at me?

LarkLane · 02/08/2023 15:52

DrLouiseJMoody · 02/08/2023 14:09

She did not go no comment on everything and explained very clearly her perspective. That perspective was then omitted from the application.

Longer term, Wiggum may be needing a good Fed rep, that suggests more than just incompetence.
Her senior managers are going to have some explaining to do when eventually this lands with the PCC.

Thanks from me also for the updates Dr. Louise and best wishes to you and CF.

Transparent2 · 02/08/2023 15:53

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 15:47

Pixiedust1234
What irony - where have I been abusive to others on here?
But I should just accept it aimed at me?

I'm 'posting against the flow of threads' as some of the posts on those threads I disagree with. Its a discussion forum after all.

Or do you want a discussion forum where everyone just automatically agrees with everyone else? Wont be much of a discussion.

Transparent2
Here’s some unsolicited advice:
If someone posts something you find abusive on MN, report it and then try to forget about it.

I do. But it doesn't make it right though does it.
And if people are suggesting that I show no humanity, then what about these abusive posters who aim things at me?

I’m sure it’s galling to go against the flow politely and then find that someone gets annoyed and says something rude or dismissive. Perhaps though, you could reflect on why that is? The sheer volume of repetitive posts saying variations on "we just don’t know" is rather wearing, and human nature is what it is.

Harrassment · 02/08/2023 16:04

NC for this.

I had a harassment case against a local person which went on for a long time. I was repeatedly told the police couldn’t do anything without evidence and to make sure I saved all cctv showing harassment, to film on my phone if the person “happened to appear” when I went about my daily life etc. I had emails saying this, and asking me to send all footage to police.

When I sent them a batch of this evidence ( not the first) I then got told I was being issued with a harassment warning and if I was caught playing back my homes cctv again I would be arrested. This was issued by an officer I had previously complained about.

After the next harassment I went to a different police station. They confirmed the harassment warning but said it should never have been issued as I had clearly followed police instructions to provide evidence. Shortly after this the warning disappeared from my file with no trace of it.

This sounds very similar but on a much more serious scale.

DarkDayforMN · 02/08/2023 16:13

If I was caught playing back my homes cctv again I would be arrested.

oh my god. That’s insane. I would think this was too ridiculous to be true if it wasn’t for… well, this thread, and Felix, and all the rest of it. I’m so sorry you had to deal with a stalker and the cops on top of that!

Harrassment · 02/08/2023 16:17

I had anxiety and depression in the end. I had panic attacks every time I entered the police station. The whole case was completely mismanaged but I ended up too broken to deal with the police. Luckily I got chance to move away from the area and escaped from it all.

It has given me a small insight into just how strong CF and others are.

I realised the typo in this username too late to change it but it’s only for this post.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 16:26

Transparent2
So if I have a different view on something to another person - does that justify abusive comments aimed at me from them and others?

Harrassment
I then got told I was being issued with a harassment warning and if I was caught playing back my homes cctv again I would be arrested.

This is clearly wrong and should be brought to light.
I hope the cop involved was dismissed. You can't be threatened with arrest for merely playing your own CCTV.

Dumbo12 · 02/08/2023 16:32

One obviously can be threatened with arrest for playing one own cctv, unless someone is suggesting that the pp is telling lies. The fact that one should not be threatened with arrest is a different matter. Language is very important

LarkLane · 02/08/2023 16:34

Harrassment · 02/08/2023 16:17

I had anxiety and depression in the end. I had panic attacks every time I entered the police station. The whole case was completely mismanaged but I ended up too broken to deal with the police. Luckily I got chance to move away from the area and escaped from it all.

It has given me a small insight into just how strong CF and others are.

I realised the typo in this username too late to change it but it’s only for this post.

I'm so sorry, sadly this sort of thing happens too many times as we see on this thread. It's such a stressful situation to go through. I hope that you are thriving now, and in better days.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 16:37

Dumbo12
That's is what I meant - sorry if it didn't come across that way

The cop was wrong to threaten to arrest 'Harrassment' for playing their own CCTV. The cop should not have done this and i hope they are no longer a cop.
I am sorry that 'Harrassment' had to go through that and deal with the stalker as it was clearly badly/wrongly investigated.

Harrassment · 02/08/2023 16:47

Thank you all. I am thriving now @LarkLane thanks to good friends and a new area.

Is that the first time Felix has acknowledged police wrongdoing? Thank you Felix. He is still a policeman as far as I know. Despite my life being back on track I do not feel strong enough to go back to those times to fight it. As the warning disappeared it would be hard to fight. Strangely my written copy never materialised but the other police station confirmed it was sent.

IwantToRetire · 02/08/2023 18:32

I then got told I was being issued with a harassment warning and if I was caught playing back my homes cctv again I would be arrested.

So sorry this happened. And unfortunately you are not alone. I know of a family where one of the adult children is registered blind, and has other health issues, but uses new technology a lot. eg having a system that focuses on a bird feeder. This led to a neighbour complaining they were being spied on, etc., etc.

And it seems that one middle ranking officer has total control of the case. Senior officers say it is "his case". This led, despite social workers saying dont do it, to 3 policemen arriving early one morning to arrest the supposed spy, who then had a siezure. The police stopped his father administering medicine that could releavd his symptons on the grounds he was now under arrest, and they had would all have to wait until the ambulance service arrived. (Just to say all evidence seized by the police, eg computers and digital cameras were eventually return months later on the basis that they would not be relevant to the case.)

I've probably said too much as the case is ongoing, but it points to a culture in local police stations where any sense of due diligence or supervision, standards evidence, does not exist.

But wonder if an other police station could help as mentioned above. Although when an independent observer was bought in they were only shown the case by the police officer and not allowed to read the material written in response. So that was another dead end.

So I dont want to derail this thread as I think it really important that it remains focused on Caroline Farrow, but have added this as it shows that any of us thinking that there is some universal standard of good practice throughout police forces, should accept that there aren't.

But based on the case I know about, it appears no one, local councillors, social workers, senior officers, is allowed to challenge the work practices of one officer. So I can in fact imagine some strange acceptance, that on whatever basis someone is off work for 7 weeks, no one else would take up the work.

After all a different pair of eyes might come to a conclusion that what the original officer insisted was the case, was in fact was wrong. Canteen culture, isn't just about fostering misogyny, racism, homophobia etc., it is also the hub where power patterns are enforced.

I am not sure how you break this culture.

And that someone like Caroline Farrow could find herself caught up in this kafkaesque system.

Felix125 · 02/08/2023 19:25

IwantToRetire
The family need to complain then as that sounds horrendous.

It sounds like it could have been and should have been dealt with without a need to arrest.

DarkDayforMN · 02/08/2023 19:57

I've probably said too much as the case is ongoing,

Isn't intervening in this kind of police abuse what PCCs are there for? I know that apparently they can't do anything about ongoing cases, so... all an abusive officer has to do is drag the case out forever?

I keep getting gobsmacked anew by how ridiculous the police system seems to be. A ridiculous system designed by clowns (the College of Policing) and staffed by dangerous misogynists. How would you even start reforming this crap?

IwantToRetire · 02/08/2023 20:09

Complaints dont get dealt with as it always comes back to we cant comment as it is Officer X's case and it is ongoing.

Senior officers are not in charge. Their role seems to be to protect their officers.

ie the tail is wagging the dog

How many years have they been trying to reform the Met?

so... all an abusive officer has to do is drag the case out forever

as Caroline Farrow seems to finding out.

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